Rick Scott Voter Purge Tour Leaves Questions Unanswered, Says Voting Rights Coalition

Categories: Fire Ant

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Governor Evil's Rick Scott's secretary of state, Ken Detzner, hit Ft. Lauderdale yesterday on the last stop of his "Project Integrity" road show, which the state describes as an effort to "[protect] the voting rights of eligible voters from those who may cast an illegal vote."

Voter fraud is common as, oh, hen's teeth, and the state completely bungled a similar voter purge last year ("my bad," Scott finally admitted) so it's no surprise Detzner's effort to, as he put it, "collaborate" with local Supervisors of Elections fell flat.

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Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections Susan Bucher came away from the meeting and tore Detzner a new one (metaphorically, to be sure), telling the Sun-Sentinel's Anthony Man, "I don't think I got my questions answered today in any way whatsoever. I can't find any kind of real information other than trust me, and we did that last year." (According to Man, Bucher asked so many questions Detzner finally cut her off.)

The nub of the new purge is to create a list of suspected noncitizen voters by cross-checking the Department of Homeland Security Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements Program (SAVE) database with the state's voter data. What could go wrong?

Plenty, according to a voter's rights coalition including the ACLU of Florida, minority and labor groups. In a statement yesterday, they asked seven questions:

1. The Department of Homeland Security's Memorandum of Agreement with Florida specifically states that the SAVE database cannot accurately verify whether or not individuals are citizens. Why are we using such a database, and how do you reconcile the purge program when this data is explicitly non-definitive?

2. Why can't a citizen who is being questioned about their immigration status simply fill out an affidavit of citizenship and vote? Everybody else who fills out voter registration forms makes this same pledge, under the penalty of perjury.

3. What is the procedure for people who are wrongly identified as noncitizens to quickly correct their names in the system and vote by a regular ballot, in a way that does not create hardship for the voter? (If a naturalization certificate is lost, a replacement copy costs $345, and the wait time for processing can take up to five months.)

4. How many cases of noncitizen voting have actually occurred in Florida over the past five years? Where is the Department of State's basic research on the extent of the so-called "problem" of noncitizen voting, and why hasn't this information been shared before launching this statewide initiative?

5. How many of the 67 Supervisors of Elections have indicated a problem with noncitizen voting, or asked for the Department's assistance through this purge program?

6. Who asked the Department to initiate the alleged noncitizen voter list maintenance last year? And this year?

7. The SAVE database is a fee-based system, which would make it more expensive than the 2012 purge, which cost an estimated $100,000. What is the estimated taxpayer cost of this year's program?

Detzner's press office told New Times the secretary has answered the coalition's questions in the "Project Integrity Q&A" here. Far as I can tell, questions 1 and 3 are answered sorta/kinda/partially but for the rest, it simply isn't so.

Bottom line, we agree with the voter's rights coalition: "this purge is a solution in search of a problem." And we'll go further: the purge is a politically driven way to disenfranchise low income and minority voters and boost GOP chances at the polls.

Fortunately, it is county Supervisors of Elections who get the last word on the purge, and we trust them (most of them) to show more integrity than Rick Scott.


Fire Ant -- an invasive species, tinged bright red, with an annoying, sometimes-fatal sting -- covers Palm Beach County. Got feedback or a tip? Contact Fire.Ant@BrowardPalmBeach.com.




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13 comments
RedRead
RedRead

1. The Department of Homeland Security's Memorandum of Agreement with Florida specifically states that the SAVE database cannot accurately verify whether or not individuals are citizens. Why are we using such a database, and how do you reconcile the purge program when this data is explicitly non-definitive? 

 ---------------------

-What is wrong with the FL DMV database? doesn't it require birth certificates? (and ssn id cars) - but we know you can buy both for a price.

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2. Why can't a citizen who is being questioned about their immigration status simply fill out an affidavit of citizenship and vote? Everybody else who fills out voter registration forms makes this same pledge, under the penalty of perjury.

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who investigets voter fraud?  how many cases have even gone to court in the last 10 years, let alone a conviction?  (and what was the penalty?)  

- no teeth in the penalty.   make it a 6 month mandatory jail term, and I'm with you.

--------------------

 

3. What is the procedure for people who are wrongly identified as noncitizens to quickly correct their names in the system and vote by a regular ballot, in a way that does not create hardship for the voter? (If a naturalization certificate is lost, a replacement copy costs $345, and the wait time for processing can take up to five months.)

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IIRC they can vote in a write in fashion.  their vote will be counted if its less than 2% margin.  

-but correct me if I'm wrong.  I know there is a procedure to allow them to vote, after they are validated.

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4. How many cases of noncitizen voting have actually occurred in Florida over the past five years? Where is the Department of State's basic research on the extent of the so-called "problem" of noncitizen voting, and why hasn't this information been shared before launching this statewide initiative?

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Again, who is investigating, who is prosecuting, and is this really a crime you want someone to serve time for?  (honest mistake or outright act to defraud).

if the penalty was enforced I'd be more open to your argument.  

(I read in the herald there were around 100 convicted felons voting in the 04 election...)

-but you can validate felons, how do you identify illegals?    there is no list of illegals for this.

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5. How many of the 67 Supervisors of Elections have indicated a problem with noncitizen voting, or asked for the Department's assistance through this purge program?

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How many are election supervisors are Democrats?  Which party has more to loose by only allowing legal citizens a vote

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6. Who asked the Department to initiate the alleged noncitizen voter list maintenance last year? And this year?

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Uncle..  who?   but answer this:   Who has the most to loose by filtering illegal voters?

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7. The SAVE database is a fee-based system, which would make it more expensive than the 2012 purge, which cost an estimated $100,000. What is the estimated taxpayer cost of this year's program?

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What is fair and legal voting worth?

(100k is not a lot of $ for a state).  And how much waste in the elections is there?

What was the cost to replace the 'no receipt'  Optical Mechanical Scanners in Broward alone? 

 -the same ones Miss Oliphant  was against, and cost her her job.  (there were other reasons, but she went against the Commission, and the commission ended up buying a machine similar to her original request).



RedRead
RedRead

QUOTE: And we'll go further: the purge is a politically driven way to disenfranchise low income and minority voters and boost GOP chances at the polls.   /


-that works both ways!  We know who illegals voting benefit.   and why you are so against checking. 

RedRead
RedRead

The ONLY question is Are people voting that should not be voting, and are they voting more than once.

Since there is no verification in the Voter Registration process, how can you check who is voting, if you don't ask for a valid id?

- we don't know what we don't know..   how many people voted twice?  how many illegals voted?  - you can't know this if you don't know....


All your issues of if there is no smoke there is no fire is bogus.  you and I have no idea if someone is voting more than once... or if they are allowed to vote at all.

-the responsible thing is to require a check at the time of registration.  but since those are elected positions, they get political.  or we want anyone to vote.  (yes you can make up a name and send it in, and get a Voter card back).



fire.ant
fire.ant topcommenter

@RedRead

Your comments are posted in several places but I'm going to address them here.


There are many eyeballs on the lookout for voter fraud, strong mechanisms in place to investigate such claims, and stiff penalties for those found guilty.


Both major political parties have poll watchers in place at voting places in every election, and flying squads of lawyers on call to press claims of irregularities. Investigations are done by (Rick Scott's) Secty of State and (Rick Scott's) FDLE, as well as the FBI.


Under Florida law, "A person who commits or attempts to commit any fraud in connection with voting, votes a fraudulent ballot, or votes more than once in an election can be convicted of a felony of the third degree and fined up to $5,000 and/or imprisoned for up to 5 years."


The allegation of widespread voting by felons is equivocal and, in any case, “Project Integrity” is not aimed at this supposed problem. (Not to mention that the law is unjust, and racially motivated.)


You ask: Who has the most to loose by filtering illegal voters?

I ask: Who has the most to gain by suppressing the votes of immigrants, minorities, the elderly, students and the poor?



fire.ant
fire.ant topcommenter

@RedRead  

There is virtually no evidence of "illegals voting."

fire.ant
fire.ant topcommenter

@RedRead  

That all sounds quite reasonable. But until we have answers to the voting rights coalitions' question we have no assurance that "Project Integrity" won't disenfranchise more legitimate voters than it will deter fraudulent ones.

RedRead
RedRead

@fire.ant @RedRead How would you or anyone know this? 

How much crime is not reported?  How do you quantify an unknown? (unless you use bad logic)


What we do know is the FLDMV has required Birth certificates for DL's for what 6 years.  (among other id's)  -isn't a SSN  card also required?

that appears  a reasonable source of legal voters.  

And you know the Voters Registrar does NO validation at all.

Would illegals want to be considered legal residents?  How would or could they go about that?  Voting?  getting a VR card?

-Say its not so!  Illegals by definition are not law abiding. 

Dead people are purged, as a normal process.    So are people that don't vote in 6 years (might be less).



 

DianaDem
DianaDem

@fire.ant @RedRead The FL voter file the state provides to political consultants is hosed. It's riddled with problems. I emailed you examples last night.

They shouldn't be even THINKING about using this data to base their purge on.

Illegals voting is a right wing conspiracy theory. It's nonsense.

RedRead
RedRead

@fire.ant @RedRead 

The fact is Democrats have incentives to not validate voters, since most illegal voters come from their demographics.

-(same reason Republicans want to validate voters).

 You can't remove politics and replace rights, and fairness and not sound   foolish.  -Can you actually not smile when you say that?

also, who investigate a voters fraud?  the supervisor of elections (Ha!) and elected officall of a political party  (democrats  in tri county area)


IIRC there were around 100 case in Miami-Dade alone of convicted felons voting. (& nobody cares).


is it enough to sway an election?  ask Gore....   


beyond the proof of citizenship, what happened  to Election DAY?   When was the law changed to allow election WEEK or WEEKS Election MONTH?  (what is enough?  says who?)

-Yes clearly longer election periods favor Democrats, and Black in particular, as they seem to vote on Sunday's after church.

But what is the legal basis for allowing voting on more than 1 day?  And why not voting MONTH, or Voting QUARTER?  


-The thing to remember her is things change on both sides. 

It was not that long ago, when Bush was in office and the do nothing congress was Democrat based.... 

IMHO, -the root of the problem is the voting districts, they are drawn to elect 1 party or the other, so only the most far left or right can win in a primary, but since they are so far from the center, there is little reason to negotiate or compromise.



RedRead
RedRead

@DianaDem @fire.ant @RedRead  

Right,

There are no illegals either.  why would they possibly want to be considered as legal residents?

 What possible reason could they have for voting?   

We have no illegal immigration problem either.    the Government pays for their schooling, and give them money.  it doesn't affect me since I don't pay for the Government....

<this is grossly bad logic. >


DianaDem
DianaDem

If you didn't get them - let me know and I will resend.

DianaDem
DianaDem

To you. Last night at 9:50 pm.

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