Terry Jones Burns Qur'an; Mob Kills Ten UN Workers

Categories: News, Religion
Quranburnprotest.jpg
2010 protest against Jones' Qur'an-burning.

Rev. Terry Jones is an asshole.

There will be a lot of talk in the coming weeks about Jones' culpability for the murder of ten U.N. workers, and not a few Afghan citizens, in a Friday riot protesting Jones' burning of a Qur'an. Those on what passes for the "left" side of America's political spectrum will blame him too much; those on the right will blame him too little. It will all be meaningless, because there is no fixed amount of villainy to go around. In this imperfect universe, there is an inexhaustible supply. The despicableness of those who attacked an Afghan U.N. mission this week and beheaded several of its foreign workers in no way mitigates this simple fact: Terry Jones is a huge, irresponsible, cavalier, life-endangering, moronic asshole, and we're all lessened by having to share a state with the man.

Here are the facts, as ascertained from the New York Times:

Terry Jones, the Gainesville pastor and author, briefly became famous last year for threatening to burn a Qur'an. He backed off after nearly every religious body in the world condemned the plan's stupidity and uselessness. Before he did, several riots resulted. In one of these, in Fayzabad, Afghanistan, three people were killed.

One might have hoped Jones would learn a lesson, or several lessons, from this experience. He may have learned, for example, that inflaming the rage of crazy people can have undesired consequences. He may have learned that having the right to do something doesn't make it right to do that thing. Unfortunately, all he seems to have learned is that Qur'an burning is a guaranteed way to get press coverage. (Shame on the media for proving him right.)

So on March 20th, Jones staged a mock trial of the Muslim "holy" book, declared the document guilty, and torched it. The news shortly arrived in Afghanistan. Outrage simmered, and exploded into the streets of the city of Mazar-i-Sharif after Friday prayers. An angry mob converged on the local U.N. mission, overpowered the guards, and executed ten foreign workers, two of whom were beheaded. Five Afghan citizens died as well.

The men (or women [or children]) who committed these crimes are barbarians; possessed of a vile, theocratic, authoritarian mentality that the world would be better off without. Of course, Terry Jones already knew that -- that's why he's so hung up on the Qur'an in the first place. He knew how these individuals would react to his Qur'an burning, but decided that the faceless innocents who would bear the brunt of the Islamists' rage mattered less than his rhetorical grandstanding. Jones has now made his point -- yes, Islam can be brutal; what valuable information -- and all it cost was 15 lives. So far. I wonder if he thinks he overpaid.

Probably not, because Jones technically hasn't paid anything. Nor does it appear he intends to. He has never announced plans to burn a Qur'an in Kabul or Mecca, and I don't imagine he will. Jones' refusal to wage spiritual war in environs less cozy than Gainesville reflects an obvious and repellant cowardice. If Jones is willing to sacrifice lives for his beliefs, the apostles he reveres would likely suggest he begin with his own. They did, after all. Islam isn't the only religion to revere its martyrs.
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Info
Info

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sunuva
sunuva

Brandon.....How naive you are! Or maybe just completely sheltered from reality. Comparing Salt Lake City to Tehran? Did you say that with a straight face? (No pun)...Tell you what. You go take your boyfriend to Tehran for a vacation then follow it up to some time in Salt Lake City. I will pay for both trips on condition that you walk down the streets of both places holding hands and kissing your boyfriend. Also wear a t-shirt printed with epithets against the given city you happen to be in. Then I challenge you to come back on here and tell us again how non-distinct the two cities are.

Sighhhhh.....
Sighhhhh.....

So you're basically counseling him on one destination over the other? You're noting that one strain is more egregious than another like he asked you to.

Congratulations on agreeing with him and making his point.

sunuva
sunuva

Yay for me. But I still wanna know if Brandon in his atavistic wisdom would prove consistent in allowing his new book against the koran to be blocked from publication in order to save lives. Somehow I think we won't be hearing a peep out of him on that point. Hurrah for hypocrisy and capitalism!

Louisrose
Louisrose

In response to the many acts of violence because of a Danish cartoon about Muhammad, I have produced a demonstration of the right to free speech where the Koran, the Bible, the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and United States flag are destroyed by fire.

Freedom of Speech precedes the establishment of government. Goverment is established to protect it. Governments that fail to do so should be overthrown.

If you agree with the views expressed in this video, perhaps you might forward it to anyone who you think should see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

BJ Colter
BJ Colter

Hey, idiot, they're burning CHRISTIANS over there. Who's the asshole? And I love Obama's "condemnation". First he blasts Jones and "Oh, by the way" tells the murdering Islamists they were bad boys and girls.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

You're right. Too bad Obama has such higher expectations for free, educated Americans than for poor, medieval third-worlders.

- BKT

sunuva
sunuva

Brandon, Too bad we had expectations Obama was going to uphold the first ammendment of the constitution. But I guess that doesnt matter. As long as we appease a bunch of crazy murderous sub-humans. What are you going to do when they riot and kill in reaction to your book against the Koran? Hmmm, I wonder if you will be just as steadfast in your opinion that we must not upset them. What if the publication of your book puts our troops in harm's way? Will you be so outspoken then?

Guest
Guest

That sounds like racist talk.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

@Virgil, @Calvin...

Virgil:

Two reasons I've never editorialized about Israel. The first, and most important, is this: I've tried to educate myself on the situation in Israel, but I'm not comfortable enough with my own knowledge on the subject to editorialize. I read Haaretz; I've read the critics thereof. I've got my own opinions, but I'm not sure they're especially useful. (Same goes with economic philosophy, global warming, and a whole lot of other things I haven't yet written about.)

But even if I did feel comfortable writing editorials about subjects I don't thoroughly grok, I'd run into reason number two: For me to write about something at New Times, there's gotsta be a local and/or Floridian angle.

Here's what I am comfortable saying, if it makes you feel better: Radical Judaism is no less ugly than radical anything else, and the Palestinians obviously have a valid gripe with the settlers. (Which does not justify the murder of civilians.) However, I'm pretty sure it's a mistake to suppose that the Muslim world's animosity toward the West derives from its sympathy with Palestinians.

Calvin:

Certainly, Islam is more science-phobic than Christianity. There was a very good New Yorker article on the subject of fundamentalist Islamic scientists last year -- it should be Goodleable.

As to the subjugation of women, I think you must be kidding. American Christians will think poorly about a woman who receives an abortion, as is their right. In most Muslim countries a woman is likely to be executed for being raped. For your edification, look up the girl's school in Saudi Arabia where the fire department refused to fight a conflagration because the students inside might be unveiled. Most of the little girls burned to death.

And as to Islam's tolerance of dissent -- next time you're in a Yemeni bookstore, try picking me up a Salman Rushdie novel.

Look: Religious craziness is always bad. But if you don't think it's worth noting which strain is more egregious than another, consider: If a homosexual couple of your acquaintance was considering a vacation in either Salt Lake City or Tehran, would you counsel them on one destination over the other?

- BKT

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Thank you for the response that you are clearly not required to give. However, I do think you need to research these issues because the Apartheid in Palestine is without question the number one reason why the average Muslim despises Israel and the West. Since the invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Libya, I can tell you that the U.S. has clearly created more reasons.

However, fixating on ancient scriptures, and presenting this as the primary reason why there is hate in Muslim community misses the mark.

tam
tam

Terry Jones a religious leader? He is murdering innocent people with his anti-Christian, anti-humanity burning of the Qu'ran. He has sold himself to the devil.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Mr. Thorp has taken an inexplicable position on these issues, refusing to write stories about Zionist extremists and their culpability in this whole debacle. I have yet to read one blog by this author on the apartheid in Palestine, led by Zionist extremists. You literally have to read the Israeli press to learn the other side of the story because American journalists are too frightened to address this subject.

Mr. Thorp often cites biblical passages from the holy books of Christians and Muslims, but never from the Talmud. This creates an enormous credibility problem for him.

One of these days, the Juice will hire a writer with the balls to address the "other side" of the story, which would provide an explanation as to why there is so much hatred in the Muslim community, but don't hold your breath.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

I won't mince words, but I do stand behind my opinion that Mr. Thorp's writings on the issue of religious extremism contain a number of glaring omissions, namely, the religious extremists in the Jewish community, who are ethnocentric, tribalist and nationalist, AND, the institutional mistreatment of Palestinians by this same movement of tribalists and nationalists.

nanook5
nanook5

idk if you've noticed but bkt is writing editorials for a free local newspaper, he's not an international journalist....there are plenty of entities devoted to reporting the occupation's excesses but not nearly enough writers talking about the local influences of fear- & war-mongers, which is pretty much why i started reading this blog.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

There are plenty of entities devoted to talking about the "occupation's excesses"?

Really? Name three American "entities" that are "devoted" to writing about the subject of religious extremists in Israel and the Apartheid in Palestine.

"Excesses"? Is that the word you use to describe the murder of innocent civilians, and the taking of their land and homes?

nanook5
nanook5

mincing words with people that agree with you is very silly.

Calvin Clifford Mortz
Calvin Clifford Mortz

"Now, Islam as it is currently constituted is *more* anti-science than any other major modern religion. It is responsible for the subjugation of *more* women, and it meets dissent and hypocrisy *more* harshly." BKTMore anti-science? Than the Creationist's?More women subjugated? The invaders of American wombs ranks right up there.More harshly meeting dissent? The Bush Crusades says otherwise.My problem was with you describing Islam as a hellavalot worse than than modern-day anything else. I personally find Christianity as practiced by the right wing zealots to be equally as destructive as the practices of the Taliban types of Islam. All these radical groups believe in magical thinking & would stop at nothing to prove their God to be the one & true God & the toughest God on the block. Now, Calvin -- when I attack Catholicism, you think it's perfectly alright. I go after Islam, and that's a no-no? BKT So not a no-no, but in describing one brand of crazies to be crazier than another was my original point. Looking forward to your next published article, Argumentative Calvin

Guest
Guest

"More anti-science? Than the Creationist's?"

You've never heard of Muslim creationists?http://www.guardian.co.uk/scie...

"More women subjugated? The invaders of American wombs ranks right up there."

Ranks up there how? In terms of the number of women subjugated? In terms of the severity of the subjugation put upon them? Attempted denial of the right to abortion is equal to women actually being denied the right to vote? Or women being subject to the death penalty for allegedly committing adultery? Or being forced to wear all-covering drapes? Or prepubescent girls being married off to adult men and cannot get a divorce because the courts force them to stay in that marriage?

I'm sure there are some American religious fanatics who would like women to be disenfranchised, to be executed for cheating on their husbands and to be married off to 50 year old men at age 12 and then die from internal bleeing from being raped. But those American fanatics seem to lack the support of law, courts and popular numbers that similarly minded people in Muslim regions enjoy, which makes their preferences into reality in those areas.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

"More harshly meeting dissent? The Bush Crusades says otherwise."

Bush invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because he was so enraged about the political speech of the Afghan and Iraqi populations and wanted to harshly silence their dissent? I thought it was for oil? Why didn't Bush continue his term indefinitely and use the army to shoot Americans who voted fo the opposition party?

"I personally find Christianity as practiced by the right wing zealots to be equally as destructive as the practices of the Taliban types of Islam."

Yeah, that's your personal belief and it is objectively wrong.

"All these radical groups believe in magical thinking & would stop at nothing to prove their God to be the one & true God & the toughest God on the block."

But in the Muslim areas, there are more "magical" thinkers and their beliefs have the power of law and sovereign force.

"So not a no-no, but in describing one brand of crazies to be crazier than another was my original point."

What is your point? If there is but one person who beliefs a horrible, crazy thing here, then it is equally as bad as a hundred million people believing a crazy, horrible thing and acting to make that horrible, crazy belief come true?

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

P.S. And just so you know, I think all religions are all equally filled with insane people, and I adore Jews and think they are being misrepresented by this present movement of Zionist extremists.

Having said that, Mr. Thorp intentionally omits the role that Jewish extremists have played in this process while freely attacking Christians and Muslims. Yes, he'll make the occasional "muted" and "ambiguous" comment about Jewish extremism, but never devotes an entire article on this issue, and to my recollection, has never cited the disgusting passages of the Talmud, and has never written once about the brutal apartheid in Palestine, which is driven by religious zealots.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Calvin: you should ask Mr. Thorp when he has written about Jewish extremism aka zionism. You should ask him when he has written about the brutal apartheid that exists in Palestine. You should ask him when he has cited passages from the Talmud, which make the Jewish religion look just as bad as Christianity and/ or Islam.

Nevermind. You don't have to ask him in order to find out the answer. I'll answer these questions for you.

NEVER!

nanook5
nanook5

to answer: yes, yes, and yes. christianity sucks and islamophobia is causing a lot of trouble. but don't whitewash the freakin' taliban!

SMDrPepper
SMDrPepper

Terry Jones is an idiot and no better than the religious zealots in Afghanistan who murdered those people. He knew that something would happen if he did this and I think its what he wanted. If he does this again, he should be shipped straight to Afghanistan on a press tour. And I would like to know how he would feel if someone started to burn bibles?Even though Christians do not hold the bible in the same light as Muslims hold the Koran. To them its like burning the American flag on the Lincoln Memorial on the Fourth of July is to us.Yes, we have free speech, but it does not include speech that can get someone killed. Thats why its illegal to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater, which Jones is now very guilty of.

Calvin Clifford Mortz
Calvin Clifford Mortz

Islamaphobia is alive & well & is represented here & in the replies on related facebook. "Hey! I agree with you. Modern-day Islam is a whole helluvalot worse than modern-day anything else." B.T. on facebookSurprised that you joined the chorus of attaching blame to an entire religion based on the radical actions of a few adherents. This idiot attention-seeker Jones is the Christian equivalent of the small group of murdering zealots. These replies reek of McCarthyism & the great Red Scare. Perhaps another "Crusades" (outside of the one created by Bush Lite) would satisfy the bloodlust of those that engage in stereotypical hyperbole.

BJ Colter
BJ Colter

Calvin, a phobia is an "unreasonable" fear. I worked in the courts in Delaware just after 9-11 and I can't tell you how many terrorists were processed without it hit the press. My fear of Islam is reasonable, your just white bread, boy.

nanook
nanook

you must piss your pants everytime there's a rainstorm then because you probably have a better chance of being hit by lightning than a evil muslim.

Guest
Guest

So a guy who burns a bound collection of organic woodpulp and ink is the equivalent of those who murdered and beheaded because of it?

Were the newspaper editors who refused to remove a cartoon depicting Mohammad the secular equivalent of those who murdered and rioted because of it?

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

Now, Calvin -- when I attack Catholicism, you think it's perfectly alright. I go after Islam, and that's a no-no?

Here's why I dislike religion generally:

1. It makes untrue claims about the nature of the universe.

2. Its devotees tends to subjugate women, gays, and minorities generally.

3. It tends to be intolerant of dissent.

Now, Islam as it is currently constituted is *more* anti-science than any other major modern religion. It is responsible for the subjugation of *more* women, and it meets dissent and hypocrisy *more* harshly.

So as a religion, I say it's worse. This isn't necessarily the Qur'an's fault; Jews and Christians have managed to forget about the nastier bits of the Bible, and there's no reason why Muslims can't one day do the same. But for several complex historical and economic reasons, modern Islam is more filled with violent extremism than any other religion in the world. Is that even debatable?

- BKT

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

P.S. Until you give equal coverage to the role that Jewish extremism, aka Zionism, has played in this entire cluster fuck of religious lunatics, you will continue to suffer from a serious credibility problem.

You write articles about Christian and Muslim extremists, often citing the barbaric passages of the New Testament and Quran. However, I cannot recall you ever writing about Jewish extremism and/ or the brutal apartheid in Palestine, which is led by religious extremists.

Addressing these issues without mentioning the number one reason for the fomenting of hate in the Muslim community, namely Israel's treatment of Palestinians and America's support of Israel, is akin to not covering these issues at all.

I suggest you begin covering sports with Mr. Mooney.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Which Christian nation has waged war against Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and now, Libya? Do you know how many innocent civilians--mostly Muslim-- have been murdered so that we can achieve global hegemony?

Are you aware that the Christian bible is used as a motivating factor for our troops?

So, modern Islam is filled with more violent extremism than any other religion in the world?

Are you serious?

BJ Colter
BJ Colter

Virgil, may the Islamists pluck your eat your eyes out of your head right after they behead your son and rape your daughter to death. That's there plan, and Obama lifts his hand for worldwide Muslim takeover.

Bom
Bom

Burning one koran does not serve a significant purpose, however Terry Jones, or others should burn significantly more. Burning a koran every day would initally be met with more murderous riots but eventually the crowd would stop killing. They would get use to it (even in Afghanistan you can only riot so often before you need a break), the media would stop reporting, and we Americans would not have given up any of our freedom to expression. There is a cost to liberty, and yes Mr. Jones is not paying that cost which may make him an asshole. However the artical gives the impression of equating his actions as being on par with those of the killers. There is a vast, vast differance between being insensitive to anothers religion and killing.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

Bom:

I wouldn't say Jones' actions are "on par" with the killers. However, it is a fact that Terry Jones woke up one March morning and decided to take an action which *he knew* would result in riots, which he knew would likely result in deaths.

- BKT

BJ Colter
BJ Colter

Brandon, over a million Christians were butchered in the Sudan in the 90's by Muslims...for no good reason except Islam demands it. No quran burnt, nothing. Worldwide, most Muslims support murder. For God's sake, they rape their own sisters and then stone them for dishonoring the family. This is a majority, not a minority.

nanook
nanook

I definitely call bullshit on that one. Genocide in Darfur is a highly politicized and ethnic phenomenon. Religion is A factor.

Jugears McKenyan Jr
Jugears McKenyan Jr

Whoever wrote this blog post is an idiot.

He proved exactly what he wanted to today, these people are uncivilized animals, can be provoked into mass beheadings and mass murder like shooting fish in a barrel.

In fact someone should make a youtube of 'supposedly' wiping their butt with fake pages of the "Koran" and these animals would do the same thing they did here over and over. In fact to prove it I may just do it myself and watch their reactions when it's not even real

That's the same way the cartoon mobs started, with Muslim spread lies from Clerics. If our leaders were smart, they'd use the CIA, organize a Koran burning, tape it for the news, wait for the animals to assemble and NUKE THEM ALL IN ONE BIG MOB. BYE MUHAMMAD AND FRIENDS...You want peace on earth? END ISLAM LIKE WE ENDED THE JAPANESE IN WWII. These animals deserve it far more since they committed 911 against us..

These animals just torched thousands of homes, shops, leaving tens of thousands homeless in Ethiopa and where is Obama's humanitarian air assaults there? Or all the compassionate Muslim hugging lefties? NO OIL there I guess. HUH YOU LEFTY suckers?

3 wars for Obumble, can't get out of one of the two he promises to get elected, and starts a new one SO illegally, the Muslims burn down the white house if it was done in Afghanistan.

ANIMALS, ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, AND ALWAYS WILL BE.....JONES PROVED IT FOR THE WORLD TO SEE

Take your heads out of the sand you idiots. These people would just as soon rip your head off and whizz down your neckhole than look at you. Sheep being led to their own slaughter you people are. God help you all, what's it gonna take for you people to understand they're at war with everyone? When it's you?

nanook5
nanook5

yep...the only way to deal with psycho animals is to be the biggest psycho animal possible. chuck norris applauds your idiocy.

Guest
Guest

"Nor does it appear he intends to. He has never announced plans to burn a Qur'an in Kabul or Mecca, and I don't imagine he will. Jones' refusal to wage spiritual war in environs less cozy than Gainesville reflects an obvious and repellant cowardice."

Why is he morally obligated to promulgate his beliefs or say his statements in an "environ" that carries the risk of physical danger?

Jugears McKenyan Jr
Jugears McKenyan Jr

These Muslim dogs shield themselves with lefties and PC here and in war they hide behind women and children. They don't fight fair so why should we? I wouldn't miss a wink of sleep if that region was nuked off the map tonight. I pray the idiots in Iran somehow ignite a nuke disaster every day.

We should just sell a small nuke to some animals there, let em play with it for a day and then detonate it and blame it on Iran.

nanook5
nanook5

wow and i thought your last screed was bad. let's give iran nuclear weapons...seriously, i'm surprised you can spell you are so stupid. by the way, if that movie miracle happened, you've still got over a billion muslims left, and they're REALLY out to get you...got a contingency plan there, nukey?

nanook
nanook

I have never once praised Obama, let alone voted for him, and other than that I have no freakin' idea what you're talking about.

BJ Colter
BJ Colter

Praise Obama and his Muslim $h!t cabinet, huh Nanook? You probably love Bill Mahr and still have your "CHANGE" bumper sticker on your car. I'm right, ain't I?

sunuva
sunuva

Why aren't you focusing on the real problem, the Muslim extremists? I don't support the pastor in doing this. But if we start tailoring our rights of expressions, where will it end? Give in to those groups of Muslims now, and we might just paint ourselves into a corner we cannot get out of, then it will be too late. Maybe now they only get enraged over a burning of a koran (or a cartoon of Mohammad)...but tomorrow they might get enraged over your refusal to allow shariah law to be part of the US judicial system....OOOPS, I forgot, that's already happened too! http://www.tampabay.com/news/c... But will we hear from Brandon over that issue? DID we hear from you over it? Don't bet on it.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

Greeting, Sunuva. And thank you for reading. Only I don't think you did read, because if you had, you'd have caught the bit where I called the radical Islamists "barbarians; possessed of a vile, theocratic, authoritarian mentality that the world would be better off without."

The fact is, we know the Islamists are barbarians. No question about that. Question is: Did Terry Jones know it? And was he aware that there are innocent people in countries where the radical Islamists hold sway? And if he knew it, what urgent purpose was served by his Qur'an burning that outweighed his considerations for their safety? I'll ask that again, because an answer seems important: What important purpose was served by Terry Jones' burning of this particular Qur'an?

As to your second question: I am now working now on a story about sharia law in Florida. I hope you'll read it. And if you're so inclined, I invite you to read my previous story, entitled "The Qur'an Is Not a Book of Peace," that I think nicely sums up my thoughts on murderous theocrats.

- BKT

sunuva
sunuva

No I read you loud and clear. You still however haven't answered my question which was why are you focusing on Jones and not the real overwhelming problem? You ask "What purpose was served"? Doesn't that set a dangerous precedent? Going to ask that same question if someone wants to burn the American flag? If we start changing our behaviors based on fear of how some lunatics will react not only does that reward their behavior, it launches us down a toxic slippery slope. Today we allegedly are putting lives in danger by allowing Jones to excercise his freedom of speech. Tomorrow, it might be your book against the Quran that might be putting us in harm's way. So where does it stop?

nanook
nanook

see earlier post. BNT is a LOCAL NEWSPAPER.

Jugears McKenyan Jr
Jugears McKenyan Jr

You're darn right they're barbarians, and I'm gonna be the next one to inflame them from my wheelchair in Chicago just to show the world more Muslim barbarianism by faking wiping my dogs' asss with pages 'I'll report' were torn from a Koran, and then show they were just nothing but paper after they do their predictable mob style barbarian killing as they do at the drop of a turban

nanook
nanook

You're a rightwing nutjob, aren't you BJ? I can tell because every single one I've ever spoken with immediately mistakes my ability to be tolerant as evidence that I'm part of the group I happen to defend. At this point because of assholes like you, I'm apparently gay, muslim, a satanist, a national socialist, a socialist, a liberal, a Democrat, and on and on and on...

BJ Colter
BJ Colter

Your a Muslim, aren't you Nanook? you fall rigth into step with our nations Islamist leaders and blame everyone but the pedophile Mohammed and his false religion for the atrocities in the mideast...1000 Christians killed for opposing the UN/US sanction of the overthrow of a Christian president on the Ivory coast in favor of a Muslim.

Tell 'em, Nick. You live in Chicago, you know what the Muslim $h!t is planning. God bless you, brother.

nanook5
nanook5

why be an insignificant turd when i can (ATTEMPT TO) incite people to riot and murder? i can't believe i never thought of it before, either!

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