Sun-Sentinel: Terry Jones Qur'an Burning "Appalling"?

Categories: Religion
Jones.jpg
The Sun-Sentinel has published an editorial that makes two points: (1) That Qur'an-burning Gainesville pastor Terry Jones bears no responsibility for the recent murders of U.N. workers and civilians in Afghanistan, and (2) that Jones' Qur'an-burning is "appalling."

Wrongo, Sentinel. You can't have it both ways.

If Terry Jones' Qur'an-burning (read about it here) led to no murders, or could reasonably have been expected to lead to no murders, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's not as if there's not another copy lying around. In isolation, Qur'an-burning is a far less heinous act than, say, Moby Dick-burning, for at least Moby Dick's well-written and doesn't try to convince inattentive readers that they'll spend eternity in Jahannam.

Would the Sentinel's editorialists think it equally "appalling" if a critic of, say, Rhonda Byrne's The Secret decided to torch one of that lucky lady's DVDs? And if not, why? Both The Secret and the Qur'an promulgate ridiculous, easily falsifiable views of reality, and both are likely to screw mightily with a gullible audient's sense of ethics. Difference is, the Qur'an tries to convince us that those who don't take it very, very seriously are pissing off the creator of the universe: the inventor of gravity, light, electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, space, and time. That's a considerable offense. The Secret just tells doubters they'll be fat and poor.

If you must burn a book, I can't think of a better one than the Qur'an. I've even facilitated a Qur'anic desecration or three myself, when I helped promote the first International Blasphemy Day by putting that noble event's coordinator, Lance Bush, in touch with magician Penn Jillette, who proceeded to stump for the holiday on YouTube.

International Blasphemy Day caused no riots, although the event that inspired it did. That event was the publication of 12 cartoons depicting Mohammed in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. Many death threats resulted from the publication of those cartoons, though I can think of no actual deaths. Nor do I think Jyllands-Posten's decision to publish the Mohammed cartoons is in any way similar to the actions of Terry Jones. As the editors of that publication explained:

The modern, secular society is rejected by some Muslims. They demand a special position, insisting upon special recognition of their own religious feelings. It is incompatible with contemporary democracy and freedom of speech, where one must be willing to put up with insults, mockery, and ridicule. It is certainly not always attractive and nice to look at, and it does not mean that religious feelings should be made fun of at any price, but that is of minor importance in the present context...

Later, the publication's culture editor -- who, unlike Terry Jones, has been the target of actual attacks from extremists -- would tell the Washington Post:

The cartoonists treated Islam the same way they treat Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and other religions. And by treating Muslims in Denmark as equals they made a point. We are integrating you into the Danish tradition of satire because you are part of society, not strangers.

Contrast that sentiment with the one expressed in the title of Terry Jones' book, Islam Is of the Devil.

The Sentinel is quite right in calling Jones' Qur'an burning "appalling," but only because it accomplished precisely what Terry Jones meant it to. Mr. Jones believes he has a direct line to the Almighty, and that the Almighty has decreed Islam devilish and Jones' own religion correct. (What a coincidence!) A celebration of free speech, such as Blasphemy Day or the publication of the Danish cartoons, is far less readily whipped into hysterical propaganda by a warmongering imam than Jones' desecration, which was read -- correctly -- as an act of aggression in a religious war.

Terry Jones understands that the West ("Christendom?") is engaged in a clash of civilizations, but he and our military disagree on the terms of that struggle. Jones sees it not as a clash between reason and barbarism, or between modernity and atavism, or between freedom and slavery. Jones sees it as a struggle between Jesus and Mohammed. His actions were, by his own admission, an attempt to rebrand the nation's war effort as a struggle between religions.

He is wrong to do so. The United States' foreign wars are about many things, not one of which is or should be the primacy of Christianity over Islam. This is a difficult truth for some of our enemies to accept, and so we are engaged in a propaganda war as well as a martial one, endeavoring to convince crazy god junkies that we mean well for them and their coreligionists. To undermine that propaganda effort is unpatriotic, if not actively treasonous. Our military's reception in Iraq and Afghanistan would have been very different if our stated intentions were to "kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity," as Ann Coulter once put it.

Terry Jones is free to disagree with all of this, of course. What a lucky man is Terry Jones, living in a country where he may rebrand war efforts and burn books with abandon. And it seems he has been civilized by that luck. He believes, as do almost all Americans, that you may say what you will, but mustn't harm even those with other views. As Jones himself has written: "We are not against Muslims. They are welcome to be in America and worship freely." How magnanimous.

Those who insist that Jones bears no responsibility for the murders in Afghanistan often recall this fact: That Terry Jones has directly killed no one, unlike those Afghans who responded so poorly to Jones' literary critique. This is relevant, of course. It takes one kind of man to recklessly endanger strangers a world away; it takes a very different kind of man to bring the knife down on a stranger's throat.

But Jones and the radical Islamists who hate him have something in common far more profound than any of their differences. Both they and he woke up on a day last month intending to do something. They knew that if they did this thing, innocents would almost certainly die. They also knew -- knew -- that they were in the embrace of a just deity and that should innocent blood be spilled, the deity would sort it out. It is this serene faith that makes Jones' actions "appalling" and that allows death and destruction to rage endlessly across the Middle East. To that conflagration, the Qur'an is just kindling.

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Jennifer Winkle
Jennifer Winkle

The Muslims who murdered innocent people because someone burned a Koran are murderers. They, and only they, can be blamed for what they in fact did. In America putting a cross in a jar of urine or putting animal dung on a picture of Mary, Mother of Jesus, is considered art and like wise burning a Koran is just art. Terry Jones could possibly get a grant from the National Endlowment of the Arts if he submits his artistic video tape of the Koran burning to them..

Hesham Mohamed
Hesham Mohamed

I am a muslim,I have read the bible and even it contains many porno (Ezekiel 23,Songs of Solomons..for example) and it contains a lot of violence(Lev26:7,Deut20:13..etc),I never think about burning it but rather i had rational conversations with many missionaries from different churches based on mutual respect and logic,but those who can not have a rational dialogue and lack of logic all they can do is ROAR and got paid from media just to inflame the situation,most of islamic countries are poor and uneducated,and ruled by dictators (puppet)that is why there reaction is so wrong,if that pastor have the courage to debate islam he would not do what he did.

Megalodon
Megalodon

"You say it's "appalling" to burn a Torah; I say it's appalling to revere it. We can agree to disagree."

I did not say that it was objectively "appalling" to burn a Torah. I said that it "would probably be considered appalling." Though I would not consider it appalling myself, many would, and their sensibility is not necessarily unreasonable. The point of the example was to argue that an action may be "appalling" independent of whether or not it leads to murder and whether or not the actor is hoping it will provoke murders or is only "serenely indifferent" to murders that may result.

"Jones' acts would still have been appalling even if no one had died, because he had already resigned himself to the overwhelming likelihood of said death."

You claim that Jones is appalling even if there were no consequence, but you are trying to indict Jones on some kind of consequence-related grounds, saying that the probability and severity of a possible bad reaction makes his act appalling, because he was supposedly aware of the bad stuff that could happen and acted anyway.

Yet, you laud and celebrate an event that had worse consequences. You say, "Many death threats resulted from the publication of those cartoons, though I can think of no actual deaths. Nor do I think Jyllands-Posten's decision to publish the Mohammed cartoons is in any way similar to the actions of Terry Jones...A celebration of free speech, such as Blasphemy Day or the publication of the Danish cartoons, is far less readily whipped into hysterical propaganda by a warmongering imam than Jones' desecration."

Jones's provoked riot killed 14 people. Over 100 deaths resulted from violence provoked by the Jyllands-Posten cartoons and the violence spanned several countries, including Afghanistan. What do you mean by "far less readily whipped into hysterical propaganda"?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/468...

Jerry Falwell had been calling Muhammad a pedophile on national news years prior to the Jyllands-Posten scandal. And of course, Falwell was fully on board with the Christian supremacy, Islam is the devil mission. Yet his insults did not provoke the worldwide riots. The benignly inspired, poking fun caricatures did that. But since the cartoons supposedly had the intent of benign parody, they are a priori blameless, while Falwell’s and Jones’s acts are a priori appalling, no matter the outcome, because of their theistic motivations.

How much warning and probability of violence does a person have to receive in order for that person to share the blame for future violent actions committed by violent actors? How was this "overwhelming likelihood of said death" proven to Jones prior to his action? Because he previously saw broadcasts of Muslim persons promising that they would respond with violence? Because Muslim clerics entreated him not to do so and warned him how some Muslims will respond? Because American generals and politicians warned him publicly and privately that Muslim persons would respond with escalated violence? And does this only apply because Jones was specifically and individually warned of such consequences?

The Jyllands-Posten publishers had lived through the Salman Rushdie scandal and the Theo Van Gogh murder. Were they actually oblivious enough to think Muslim persons never react violently when their religion is publicly made fun of? Since the controversy has passed and Muslim fanatics have “served notice” that they will respond to such cartoons with violence, does that put publishers “on notice”? If a republication of these comics provoked subsequent deaths, would the publishers be culpable?

How about the journalists who first broadcasted the Abu Ghraib prison photographs? Were they blissfully unaware of the possibility of Iraqis seeking to kill more American troops in retaliation for the photographed degradation? The Obama administration is refusing to release other detainee abuse photographs because they say the photographs will endanger our troops more so. Now if somebody were to leak these sealed photographs, would they be condemnable as being "serenely indifferent" to murder and death? Or how about the organizers of the Jerusalem gay pride parade? They receive many threats every year and are warned of a dangerous reaction. One year, some Muslim person broke into the parade and stabbed three people. Do the gay pride organizers share blame for the stabbings?

Things is, most religious adherents willing to do violence will not serve advanced notice. You may have ten Blasphemy Days in a row without any trouble. Then on the next one, somebody may put your festivities on YouTube and then a bunch of Red Cross workers get their throats slit in Afghanistan. Would you have their blood on your hands? Of course not, because you did it all in good fun. And I mean that.

"Morally, there's not much of a difference between trying your best to kill somebody and actually killing somebody."

So you mean that by burning that book, Jones was doing his "best to kill somebody" and that makes him not much morally different than a person who actually killed somebody? That's strange. You said "Terry Jones has directly killed no one, unlike those Afghans who responded so poorly to Jones' literary critique. This is relevant, of course. It takes one kind of man to recklessly endanger strangers a world away; it takes a very different kind of man to bring the knife down on a stranger's throat."

So this difference between Jones and the actual murderers is "not much of a difference" but it is also "relevant" and makes Jones and the actual murderers "very different"? Different how? Do you mean that the murderers are better people because they are braver?

"I'm suggesting that burning a "holy" book -- or any book -- isn't at all "appalling." What's the counter-argument? That some books are magic?"

Um, no, that's not my counter-argument. I think holy books and their reverence are ridiculous. I was mentioning the concept that some consider it appalling to burn a "holy book" whether or not violence results and whether or not the burner is yearning for violence to result or is "indifferent" to what violence may result.

Let's use a different example, so you do not think I am arguing that holy books are self-evidently sacred. If a person drew a poster showing Matthew Shepherd leaning on the fence post and wallowing in his own urine and excrement and that person yelled "I hope he died in agony in his own shit!" that would probably be considered appalling, even by you. And that would probably be classified as appalling whether or not some homophobic murders subsequently happen and whether or not the protester hoped in his heart of hearts that some people would be murdered. Or if he was just "serenely indifferent" to any violence that would result. That speaker would not have to be culpable or complicit with any kind of homicidal action to be considered "appalling."

"In this situation, the Qur'an was a stage prop. That's all. Jones' actions would have had the same effect if he had burned "Valley Of The Dolls" with a mock-Qur'an cover slapped onto it."

I agree, but the actual murders did not occur until he burned what looked liked a Quran, and you did not indict Jones until he actually burned it. Since 2010, the world knew that Jones hated Islam and that he believed Christianity was true and supreme, etc. If he had never followed through with burning it, but some violent incident resulted anyway because some kook thought what he did was already bad enough, presumably you would not have indicted Jones as being partly responsible for the incident.

But he did burn it, and that's the act that the believers drew as the line in the sand and they claimed that act as their reason for murder, even though they could just as easily claimed something else. And you indicted Jones as being responsible for those murders. You say holy books and holy taboos are ridiculous, but you say if we violate the injunctions professed by violent believers and apologists, we can become responsible for their violent actions. You are validating their taboos by saying if we cross them, we are blameworthy for the acts they commit to avenge their taboo. You said Jones’s action would not be condemnable if it “could reasonably have been expected to lead to no murders.” But if what “could reasonably have been expected to lead to no murders” is determined by what respondent Muslims say will provoke their violence, we have already overstepped that line. Making a film that says Islam abuses women provoked murder and naming a teddy bear Muhammad provoked violent riots.

“The wrongdoing here is in the intent.”

Jones always intended to denigrate Islam and provoke mayhem and publicity, when he first said he would burn it and then backed off, and when he had the book trial and actually did burn it. He was saying and doing provocative things to that end even before the burning. You only declared him to be appalling when he actually did this terminal act.

“You've got the standard wrong. It's ‘serene indifference to murder is always appalling,’”

Okay, let’s work with that. Define “serene.” If he said he felt hesitant and conflicted before burning it, but that he must “tell the truth about Islam” or do “Christ’s work” no matter the reactions, would he still be “serene” and therefore appalling?

However, that’s not quite your standard, because you put an additional stipulation into it.

“It is this serene faith that makes Jones' actions "appalling" and that allows death and destruction to rage endlessly across the Middle East.”

Your standard is apparently, if you intend to something that you think may result in violence, and its based on a theistic, regressive certitude, then it is appalling.

So if my “Muhammad Humps Another Man Parade” provokes one thousand deaths in Afghanistan, I am blameless. But if my “Death to Islam, Christ is King Parade” doesn’t even provoke a furrowed brow from a Muslim (even though I am preying for bloodshed), I am appalling. Yeah, that works.

For the record, I think both parades would be entirely blameless, no matter how credible and numerous the prior threats are.

In answer to the cartoon question, you said “Maybe! Depends on the circumstances.” Okay, what circumstances? Are Matt Stone and Trey Parker appalling?

Megalodon will be my moniker from now on. I don’t see why you demand disclosure. Almost everyone here goes under a “faceless” moniker. And I never said any ad-hominem remarks, though you enjoy condescension. Thank you for reading.

No law saying you have to respond. Silence is concession.

nanook
nanook

not enough time in the day to read that rant..

Megalodon
Megalodon

Then don't waste your time. Your commentary will remain your beloved secret. Cherish it.

Dana
Dana

(…Kill Them Wherever You Find Them…)

(A Revelation from [Allah], the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.)

(The Jews say: “Allah’s Hand is tied up [i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty].” Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends [of His Bounty] as He wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from your Lord (Allah) increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah extinguished it; and they ever strive to make mischief on the earth. And Allah does not like the Mufsidun [mischief-makers].)

(And you see many of them [Jews] hurrying towards sin and transgression, and eating illegal things [as bribes and Riba (usury). Evil indeed is that which they have been doing.)

(And they have invented a kinship between Him and the jinn, but the jinn know well that they have indeed to appear [before Him] [i.e. they will be called to account].)

(He [Isa-Jesus] was not more than a slave. We granted Our Favour to him, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel [i.e. his creation without a father].)

(And (remember) when We sent towards you (Muhammad [PBUH]) a group of (three to ten persons) of the jinn, (quietly) listening to the Qur’an. When they stood in the presence thereof, they said: “Listen in silence!” And when it was finished, they returned to their people, as warners.)

(They said: “O our people! Verily, we have heard a Book (this Qur’an) sent down after Musa (Moses), confirming what came before it: it guides to the truth and to a Straight Path (i.e. Islam).)

(And indeed Musa [Moses] came to you with clear proofs, yet you worshipped the calf after he left, and you were Zalimun [polytheists and wrong-doers.]

(Verily, We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent Messengers to them. Whenever there came to them a Messenger with what they themselves desired not, a group of them they called liars and others among them they killed.)

(And they set up rivals to Allah, to mislead men from His Path! Say: “Enjoy your brief life! But certainly, your destination is the [Hell] Fire!”)

(They are like their immediate predecessors [the Jews of Banu Qainuqa, who suffered); they tasted the evil result of their conduct, and [in the Hereafter, there is] for them a painful torment.)

(And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.)

(Jihad ((holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.)

(O Prophet [Muhammad {pbuh}]! Urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast persons amongst you, they will overcome two hundreds, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons, they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they [the disbelievers] are a people who to do not understand.)

(And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated, and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord!” Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors, and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help.)

(If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people; and you cannot harm Him at all, and Allah is Able to do all things.)

(Oh you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious].)

(And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allah). And the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone (in the whole of the world). But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly Allah is All-Seer of what they do).

(And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war [tanks, planes, missiles, artillery] to threaten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them whom you may not know, [but] whom Allah does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah shall be repaid to you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.)

(So be not weak and ask for peace (from the enemies of Islam while you are having the upper hand. Allah is with you, and He will never decrease the reward of your good deeds).

(So do not become weak [against your enemy], nor be sad, and you will be superior [in victory] if you are indeed [true] believers.)

(And if you are killed or die in the Way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all that they amass [of worldly wealth].)

(Think not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are alive, with their Lord, and they have Provision.)

(Verily, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties for [the price] that theirs shall be Paradise. They fight in Allah’s Cause, so they kill [others] and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat [Torah] and the Injeel [Gospel] and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.)

(Indeed, We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed them the Scripture and the Balance [justice] that mankind may keep up justice. And We brought forth iron wherein is mighty power [in the matters of war], as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help Him [His religion] and His Messengers in the unseen. Verily, Allah is All-Strong, All-Mighty.)

(Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers and those who believe [in the Oneness of Allah—Islamic Monotheism] in this world’s life and on the Day when the witnesses will stand forth, [i.e. Day of Resurrection]--)

(And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them [Messengers], We shall give them their rewards; and Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

(Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers [by believing in Allah and disbelieving in His Messengers] saying, “We believe in some but reject others,” and wish to adopt a way in between.)

(They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.)

(It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error.)

(The Messenger [Muhammad [pbuh]) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and [so do] the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. [They say]. “We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers” and they say, “We hear, and obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all”).

([This is the] Revelation sent down from the Lord of the Alamin [mankind, jinn and all that exists].)

([He is Allah] Owner of High Ranks and Degrees, the Owner of the Throne. He sends the revelation by His Command to any of His slaves He wills, that he (the person who receives revelation) may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting [i.e. the Day of Resurrection].

(And to warn those [Jews, Christians, and pagans] who say, “Allah has begotten a son [or offspring or children].”)

(No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths [i.e. He begot sons and daughters]. They utter nothing but a lie.)

(“He [Isa {Jesus}] said: “Verily, I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;)

(And when I (Allah) revealed to Al-Hawariyyun [the disciples of Isa [Jesus] to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: “We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims.)

(Such is Isa [Jesus], son of Maryam [Mary]. [It is] a statement of truth, about which they doubt [or dispute].)

(This is the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.)

(Look, how they invent a lie against Allah, and enough is that as a manifest sin.)

(And on the Day of Resurrection you will see those who lied against Allah [i.e. attributed to Him sons, partners] their faces will be black. Is there not in Hell an abode for the arrogant?)

(Will they not turn with repentance to Allah and ask His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

(And what think those who invent a lie against Allah, on the Day of Resurrection? [i.e. Do they think that they will be forgiven and excused! Nay, they will have an eternal punishment in the Fire of Hell.] Truly, Allah is full of Bounty to mankind, but most of them are ungrateful.)

(Your Ilah [God] is One Ilah [God-Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He])

(“And indeed, We created man from dried [sounding] clay of altered mud. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.”).

(And I have created the jinn and men only to worship Me).

(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.”)

Verses of the Qur’an compiled by:

JameelaMessenger of Allah & Defender of Islam

2 April 2011

************************************************************

Al-Jihad

(Al-Jihad {holy fighting} in Allah’s Cause (with full force of numbers and weaponry) is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of the pillars (on which it stands). By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior, (His Word being La ilaha illallah which means none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and His Religion (Islam) is propagated. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and the Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honour is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and he who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite.)

JameelaMessenger of Allah & Defender of Islam

“…Jihad in Allah’s Cause…”

(Let not the free disposal [and affluence] of the disbelievers throughout the land deceive.)

(A brief enjoyment; then, their ultimate abode is Hell; and worst indeed is that place for rest.)

([O disbelievers] if you ask for a judgement, now has the judgement come to you; and if you cease [to do wrong], it will be better for you, and if you return [to the attack], so shall We return, and your forces will be of no avail to you, however numerous they be; and verily, Allah is with the believers.)

(Whosesoever desires honour, [power and glory], then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory [and one can get honour, power and glory only by obeying and worshipping Allah [Alone]. To Him ascend [all] the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it [i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allah unless and until they are followed by good deeds], but those who plot evils, theirs will be severe torment. And the plotting of such will perish.)

(Then as for those who believed [in the Oneness of Allah – Islamic Monotheism] and did righteous good deeds, such shall be honoured and made to enjoy luxurious life [forever] in a Garden of Delight [Paradise].)

(O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Qur’an, and Muhammad [PBUH]), and have driven out the Messenger (Muhammad [PBUH]) and yourselves (from your homeland) because you believe in Allah your Lord! If you have come forth to strive in My Cause and to seek My Good Pleasure, (then take not these disbelievers and polytheists as your friends). I am All-Aware of what you conceal and what you reveal. And whosoever of you (Muslims) does that, then indeed he has gone (far) astray from the Straight Path.)

(O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya [friends, protectors, helpers], they are but Auliya of each other. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).)

(Have you (O Muhammad [PBUH]) not seen those (hypocrites) who take as friends a people upon whom is the Wrath of Allah (i.e. Jews)? They are neither of you (Muslims) nor of them (Jews), and they swear to a lie while they know.)

(They have made their oaths a screen (for their evil actions). Thus they hinder (men) from the Path of Allah: so they shall have a humiliating torment.)

(On the Day when Allah will resurrect them all together (for their account); then they will swear to Him as they swear to you (O Muslims). And they think that they have something (to stand upon). Verily, they are liars!)

(Shaitan (Satan) has overpowered them. So he has made them forget the remembrance of Allah. They are the party of Shaitan (Satan). Verily, it is the party of Shaitan (Satan) that will be the losers!)

(Allah has prepared for them a severe torment. Evil indeed is that which they used to do.)

(Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depth [grade] of the Fire; no helper will you find for them.)

(And they will say: “Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!”).

(And indeed We have sent down to you manifest Ayat [these Verses of the Qur’an which inform in detail about the news of the Jews and their secret intentions, etc], and none disbelieve in them but Al Fasiqun [those who rebel against Allah’s Command]).

(A warning to mankind--)

(And verily, you will find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind for life and [even greedier] than those who ascribe partners to Allah [and do not believe in Resurrection-Majus {Magians}, pagans and idolators]. Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such a life will not save him even a little from due punishment. And Allah is All-Seer of what they do.)

(Is it not [the case] that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throw it aside? Nay [the truth is:] most of them believe not.)

(And when it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “We are only peace-makers.”)

(Verily, they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.)

(Know they (Jews) not that Allah knows what they conceal and what they reveal?)

(They may hide their crimes from men, but they cannot hide them from Allah; for He is with them [by His Knowledge], when they plot by night in words that He does not approve. And Allah ever encompasses what they do.)

(Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allah, to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn (thereby).)

(And We have broken them [i.e. the Jews] up into various groups on the earth; some of them are righteous and some are away from that. And We tried them good [blessings] and evil calamities in order that they might turn to Allah’s Obedience.)

(And We said to the Children of Israel after him: “Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ, Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth, We shall bring you altogether as a mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).

(And remember when your Lord declared that He would certainly keep on sending against them [i.e. the Jews], till the Day of Resurrection, those who would afflict them with a humiliating torment. Verily, your Lord is Quick in Retribution [for the disobedient, wicked] and certainly He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful [for the obedient and those who beg Allah’s Forgiveness].)

(They fight not against you even together, except in fortified townships, or from behind walls. Their enmity among themselves is very great. You would think they were united, but their hearts are divided. That is because they are a people who understand not.)

(Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people.)

((If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Eden) Paradise; that is indeed the great success.)

(If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people; and you cannot harm Him at all, and Allah is Able to do all things.)

(Jihad ((holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.)

(And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war [tanks, planes, missiles, artillery] to threaten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them whom you may not know, [but] whom Allah does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah shall be repaid to you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.)

(So, when you meet (in fight—Jihad in Allah’s Cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus (you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam and are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire or at least come under your protection), but if it had been Allah’s Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight) in order to test some of you with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.)

(Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan). Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Shaitan (Satan).)

(There is no blame on those who are weak or ill or who find no resources to spend [in holy fighting {Jihad}], if they are sincere and true [in duty] to Allah and His Messenger. No ground [of complaint] can there be against the Muhsinun [good-doers]. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

(Indeed, We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed them the Scripture and the Balance [justice] that mankind may keep up justice. And We brought forth iron wherein is mighty power [in the matters of war], as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help Him [His religion] and His Messengers in the unseen. Verily, Allah is All-Strong, All-Mighty.)

(It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed into a plain error.)

(The dwelling of such [people] is Hell, and they will find no way of escape from it.)

(And whosoever takes Allah, His Messenger, and those who have believed, as Protectors, then the party of Allah will be the victorious.)

(Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers and those who believe [in the Oneness of Allah—Islamic Monotheism] in this world’s life and on the Day when the witnesses will stand forth, [i.e. Day of Resurrection]--)

(And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them [Messengers], We shall give them their rewards; and Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

(Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers [by believing in Allah and disbelieving in His Messengers] saying, “We believe in some but reject others,” and wish to adopt a way in between.)

(They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.)

([This is the] Revelation sent down from the Lord of the Alamin [mankind, jinn and all that exists].)

([He is Allah] Owner of High Ranks and Degrees, the Owner of the Throne. He sends the revelation by His Command to any of His slaves He wills, that he (the person who receives revelation) may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting [i.e. the Day of Resurrection].

(And We sent not a Messenger except with the language of his people, in order that he might make [the Message] clear for them. Then Allah misleads whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.)

(Your Ilah [God] is One Ilah [God-Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He])

(“And indeed, We created man from dried [sounding] clay of altered mud. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.”).

(And I have created the jinn and men only to worship Me).

(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.”)

(Then [in the end] We save Our Messengers and those who believe! Thus it is incumbent upon Us to save the believers.)

Verses of the Qur’an Compiled by:JameelaMessenger of Allah& Defender of Islam

27 March 2011

Gentile Avenger
Gentile Avenger

Even jad wouldn't make us suffer through so much nonsense

Dana
Dana

Christians are Child Abusing, Demon Possessed, Devil-Worshipping, Cannibalized Vampires

What is the difference between a monkey, a Jew and a pig? There is no difference according to the Qur’an, which reveals Allah transformed some Jews into monkeys and swine and Genetic/DNA testing will confirm this. The Qur’an also reveals Christians will go to the Hell-fire for their worshipping Allah’s Messenger slave, whom they devour in their pagan rituals. I advise all Christians to read the Qur’an and discover what your evil, fire-species, greedy, Muslim-murdering, maniacal, monkey masters have kept concealed from you. Do not read the Koran, as the Koran is a crazy book, written by crazed Jew’s to hide their satanic origins; the Children of Satan aka the Children of Israel. Clinically insane Jews also wrote the Koran in an attempt to portray Muslims to be the murdering lunatics the world knows the Jews to be; yet Christians continue to serve and worship the war criminal, occupying, hostile fire species as Allah’s Chosen People. Christian’s arrogance is only exceeded by their brutal stupidity, as Muslims and Jews know the following Commandments invalidate Christianity; yet Christians continue to disobey Allah and perform uncivilized and depraved acts of cannibalism and vampirism on a dead Jew’s corpse and call it “religion”. Christians are being willfully ignorant, as they all know it was Allah and NOT Jesus who parted the Red Sea to allow the Jews to escape the pursuing Egyptians and the vampires also know that it was Allah and NOT Jesus who spoke to Moses on Mt. Sinai; yet the low-life, racist, cannibalized vampires continue to worship a murdered, Jew Messenger, “SLAVE” as their god.

1.You shall have no other gods before Me.2.You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in the heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth.

Out of sheer depravation and brute ignorance; Christians worship their murdered Jew god by eating his tortured and battered corpse like cannibals and they exceed all religious bounds by drinking his blood like vampires. Christianity was founded on violence as Christians have taken the murder weapon (cross) as their symbol of faith; as the cross is nothing more than an object from the crime scene. Additionally, the Christians god cannot return to earth unless Christians kill legions of innocent Muslims aka Armageddon. Christian’s penchant for violence is never-ending as they regularly use violence against their own children; as violence against their own children is called for in their forged “Holy” Bible (“…You spare the rod, you spoil the child...”), and the child-abusing cannibals have the audacity to call Islam a violent religion, while regularly using cult-sanctioned violence against their own defenseless children. Jew’s don’t ever beat their own children, yet they command their Christian slaves to use violence against their children. However, the most vile and evil act the depraved Christians perform in their pagan rituals is the invocation of Satan in his original form; “a smokeless flame of fire”. Christians invoke Satan every time they light a candle on the altar and the only purpose of a candle is to create “a smokeless flame of fire” that Satan is. Muslims and Jew’s know Satan was created from a “smokeless flame of fire”, as are the Jews. Christianity is permeated with violent sects of terrorist cells; such as the Aryan Brotherhood, a violent and racist sect and the radical KKK, whose sole purpose for existence is to inflict Christian terror into African-Americans and the hooded cowards use their symbol of faith; the cross, which they set ablaze and leave behind as their ‘terrorist’ calling card; yet they are not the most evil sect of Christians.

Evangelicals are the most evil of sects within the cult of Christianity; in fact, Evangelicals are the evilest of “all” mankind. Evangelicals are not satisfied with merely eating the corpse and drinking the blood of their dead Jew god and invoking Satan in his original form. Evangelicals invite demons to possess their bodies so they can communicate (Speaking in Tongues) with Satan and they are so menacingly stupid; they actually believe demonic possession is acceptable because the demons (ghosts and spirits) are “Holy Spirits” and “Holy Ghosts”; but Christians also believe that Jesus lives through them by eating his corpse; however, they are too deluded and dumb to understand that what they eat, they defecate; reducing their Jew god to human waste. The most famous demon-possessed Evangelical is the treasonous, lying, winking, and racist, bible-belt witch and mother of a teenage tramp, Sarah Palin. Sarah and her equally racist and deluded, Tea Party followers want to take America back from Barack Obama; this foolishly “racist” platform is an indication of Sarah’s lack of knowledge of American politics; as everyone in the world knows that Barack Obama kneels at the Jew’s hooves and kisses their deformed butts just as Sarah does. If the treasonous witch wants to take America back, she will have to take it back from her maniacal, monkey masters; AIPAC, the hostile fire species who is presently controlling America. Sarah stated during her failed Presidential Campaign that; “America should not question Israel”. Sarah, if President, would be perfectly content to allow the homicidal high school dropout, Megan Deir, head of the bungling Mossad; continue to control America’s Military Industrial Complex and decide what wars America will continue to launch and lose. Additionally, Sarah is campaigning on an “American Values” platform. What is Sarah’s definition of “American Values”? It’s when your unmarried, teenage, tramp daughter keeps her b-astard child instead of aborting it. The only place Sarah will lead her racist followers is to the Hell-fire.

If the world’s leaders are stupid enough to continue to follow America’s AIPAC controlled “lead”; they should use all of their political capital and money to prevent Sarah Palin the lying Evangelical racist witch from becoming the next president of the USA. The world is aware the US Congress and US Senate can be purchased by the highest bidder, as America is a Jew-owned marketplace and everything is up for sale, including American politicians. Gary Peters, Ted Poe, Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid, are willing to sell their votes to the highest bidder; as these AIPAC, butt-wipes latest High Crimes and Misdemeanors was to sell out their own President and align themselves with the occupying war criminal, Benjamin Netanyahu, for the sole purpose of thwarting peace in the Middle East. I highly recommend ALL Middle East countries to use their petro dollars to purchase a couple of American politicians if you don’t want the Zionist-ruled Americans to invade your country under the guise of “War on Terror”.

Again, I urge Christians to read the Qur’an and avoid all things “Holy” i.e. “Holy Spirit”, “Holy Ghost” “Holy Communion” and the “Holy Bible”, as Christians will discover On the Day of Resurrection, the most insidious word known to mankind is the word “holy”; as this is the word their Jew masters used to preface the evil acts they commanded their Christian slaves to perform in the “Holy” Bible i.e. beating their children. The Jew’s forgery of the “Holy” Bible has reduce it to an instruction manual (How to Serve Your Hostile Jew Masters for Dummies) for those dumb enough to be a Christian. Christianity only benefits the Jews in the life of this world and it will be of no benefit to anyone in the Hereafter; but will be the justification for an eternity of torment and humiliation in Hell-fire for those who call themselves Christians. You Christians have two options; you can continue to follow your oppressive and greedy jinn masters aka Jews to the Hell-fire from which their father Israel aka Satan was created and will return; or you can follow Allah, the God of your father, Adam, to Paradise, from which he was created. Additionally, you Christians can improve your mental health and begin thinking rationally by getting off your mind-debilitating, steady Jew diet consisting of cursed Jew (pork-flesh infiltrated with worms), Jew-god corpse and Jew-god blood.

To those blood-thirsty, racist Christian cannibals who will murder Jesus after his Resurrection for the sole purpose of bleeding him out to bath in his blood; I advise you to reconsider your blasphemous and diabolical worship of a murdered Jew and read the Qur’an and discover your “real” purpose in life is NOT to worship and serve the Jew’s as you do. You will also learn the choice to become a Muslim is not a decision Allah left to the evil likes of Christians. Allah Chooses among His slaves those who are worthy by their good deeds to dwell in Paradise. It is an honor to be a Muslim and you evil Christians will learn this on the Day of Resurrection when you cannibals witness Muslims belonging to the exclusive club of Islam, enter one of seven Gates of Paradise; while Satan’s Offspring and their demon-possessed Christian slaves, disgraced and humiliated, enter one of the seven gates of the Hell-fire. Muslims are the “Chosen People”; chosen to dwell in luxurious Paradise as Allah’s “Honored Slaves”, for all eternity. On the Day of Resurrection, when Allah removes the covering from Christian’s eyes and they see their Jew masters true form; the Qur’an states: “their eyes will stare in horror and they will sink into a fainting from horror” On this fateful Day, Christians will only wish they had been Muslims in the life of this world, as they will learn; Islam is the only religion Allah will accept from His slaves to gain entry to Paradise. I know you dangerously dumb cannibals will laugh and mock me; but you will soon come to know, from the depths of the Hell-fire, ALL Christians will go.

Jameela

Dana
Dana

ALLAH is the GREATEST

ALLAH is the greatest, ALLAH is ALIVE, but the Christian’s god is a bloodied, battered and partially-eaten and bled-out, rotting DEAD Jew, nailed to two f u c k i n sticks; a defeated, powerless and ravaged god. ALLAHU AKBAR you rabid, corpse-eating, racist, Jeffrey Dahmer M U T H A F U C K A S of extremely low intelligence. I will be sure to tell your greedy Jew masters what loyal, obedient, and cannibalized slaves you Christians are. Enjoy your brief and evil life of fairy tales and hokum your Jew masters have created for you, because the Hell-fire is your final destination. Muslims should kill you rabid, corpse-eating, blood-drinking Christian ghouls and send you to your partially-eaten, rotting Jew corpse you call god. Long live the brave and fearless Warrior of Allah, OSAMA BIN LADEN, who brought the S H I T pile aka America, to her Jew-worshipping knees.

Allah reveals in the following Verses of the Qur’an the fate of the Jews and their Christian slaves on the Day of Resurrection.

(Some faces, that Day will be humiliated [in the Hell-fire, i.e. the faces of all disbelievers, Jews and Christians],)

([It will be said]” “Seize him and fetter him;)

(“Then fasten him with a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits!”)

(When iron collars will be rounded over their necks, and the chains, they shall be dragged along,)

(Their garments will be of pitch, and fire will cover their faces.)

(In the boiling water, then they will be burned in the Fire.)

(It will be said [to them]: “Enter you the gates of Hell, to abide therein. And [indeed] what an evil abode of the arrogant!”

(“It [Hell] has seven gates, for each of those gates is a [special] class [of sinners] assigned.”)

(They will enter in the hot blazing Fire.)

(Exclaim not today for one destruction, but exclaim for much destruction.)

(And what will make you know [exactly] what Hell-fire is?)

(Over it are nineteen [angels as guardians and keepers of Hell].)

([It is] a fiercely blazing Fire!)

(Burning and blackening the skins!)

(It spares not [any sinner], nor does it leave [anything unburnt]!)

(Taking away [burning completely] the head skin!)

(The Fire will burn their faces, and they will grin with displaced lips [disfigured].) (The fire of Allah kindled,)

(Verily, it [Hell] throws sparks [huge] as Al-Qasr [a fort or a huge log of wood],)

(This is the Fire which you used to deny.)

(Which leaps up over the hearts,)

(There will be sent against you both, smokeless flames of fire and [molten] brass, and you will not be able to defend yourselves.)

(And for them are hooked rods of iron [to punish them].)

(Nothing cool shall they taste therein, nor any drink.)

(Except boiling water, and dirty wound discharges--)

(Verily, the tree of Zaqqum)

(Will be the food of sinners.)

(Which will neither nourish nor avail against hunger.)

(Verily, it is a tree that springs out of the bottom of Hell-fire,)

(The shoots of its fruit-stalks are like the heads of Shayatin [devils];)

(An exact recompense [according to their evil crimes].)

(Then for him is an entertainment with boiling water.)

(“Taste you your trial [punishment i.e. burning]! This is what you used to ask to be hastened!”)

(And those in the Fire will say to the keepers [angels] of Hell” “Call upon your Lord to lighten for us the torment for a day!”)

(They will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom; and theirs would be a painful torment.)

(Evil indeed it [Hell] is as an abode and as a place to rest in.)

(Nay! You shall come to know!)

(Again Nay! You shall come to know!)

(Truly, Hell is a place of ambush--)

(Surely, what you are promised must come to past.)JameelaMOA

Guest
Guest

"Wrongo, Sentinel. You can't have it both ways.

If Terry Jones' Qur'an-burning (read about it here) led to no murders, or could reasonably have been expected to lead to no murders, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with it."

So something is only "wrong" or "appalling" when it leads to murders? And if it does not lead to murders, then there is "absolutely nothing wrong with it"?

Did Fred Leuchter's fraudulent Holocaust-denying report lead to any subsequent anti-Semitic murders? Not that I know of, but his faux-scientific report is "wrong" and "appalling."

Did crackpot Andy Martin cause any murders when he wrote in a bankruptcy court filing, "I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did"? I know of no inspired murders, but his words sure sound appalling.

Or when Clint McCance, that schoolboard official in Arkansas, said that he was glad when homosexual children killed themselves. Did he inspire any murders with his words? If not, does that mean there was "absolutely nothing wrong" with what he said?

There is no "wrongo" contradiction with what the Sentinel argued. Something does not have to inspire homicide to qualify as appalling.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

Hi. Thanks for reading.

I don't believe I said that this any act must lead to murder before it may be considered "appalling." I'm pretty sure I said that *this* act -- this particular act, performed by this particular person -- is only appalling because he intended it to lead to murder.

- BKT

Guest
Guest

Perhaps the Sun-Sentinel found his demonstration appalling for other reasons, say, because they think deliberate desecration of religious objects is offensive and wrong in itself, whether or not it leads to murders. If I burned a Torah in public and said that Judaism is a hideous, disgusting religion, that would probably be considered appalling, whether or not there are subsequent anti-Semitic murders and whether or not I am giddy that such murders occurred.

The Sentinel argued that Jones was not responsible for the murders, but that his demonstration was still appalling. But you are saying that if his act was appalling, it must be because it lead to the murders and not for anything else, and if it did not lead to the murders, then there was "absolutely nothing wrong with it." Your conclusion seems like a non-sequitir and it seems like you are dictating what reasons the editorial must use to reach certain philosophical or moral conclusions about this one incident.

Why does the "provocation of homicide" condemnation standard only apply to this one act?

And how specific and particular is this standard of "its only appalling if it leads to murder"? Does it only apply to Terry Jones and his burning of a Quran because he was previously in the limelight for daring to do so and so many anxious Muslims were watching him with baited breath? Does it apply to anyone who burns a Quran? Or anyone who burns a holy book? Or makes a cartoon after they've been warned that certain believers will respond violently?

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

Dear Faceless Guest:

I'm gonna take this one graf at a time.

You wrote: "Perhaps the Sun-Sentinel found his demonstration appalling for other reasons, say, because they think deliberate desecration of religious objects is offensive and wrong in itself, whether or not it leads to murders. If I burned a Torah in public and said that Judaism is a hideous, disgusting religion, that would probably be considered appalling, whether or not there are subsequent anti-Semitic murders and whether or not I am giddy that such murders occurred."

I say: Well, you have an opinion. Congratulations. Yes, I am aware that my own opinion is not the only possible one. You say it's "appalling" to burn a Torah; I say it's appalling to revere it. We can agree to disagree.

You wrote:"The Sentinel argued that Jones was not responsible for the murders, but that his demonstration was still appalling. But you are saying that if his act was appalling, it must be because it lead to the murders and not for anything else, and if it did not lead to the murders, then there was "absolutely nothing wrong with it." Your conclusion seems like a non-sequitir and it seems like you are dictating what reasons the editorial must use to reach certain philosophical or moral conclusions about this one incident."

I say:Slight correction: Jones' acts would still have been appalling even if no one had died, because he had already resigned himself to the overwhelming likelihood of said death. Morally, there's not much of a difference between trying your best to kill somebody and actually killing somebody.

But otherwise -- yes, you're correct. I'm "dictating what reasons the editorial must use to reach certain philosophical or moral conclusions about this one incident." I'm suggesting that burning a "holy" book -- or any book -- isn't at all "appalling." What's the counter-argument? That some books are magic?

If so, I think you're wrong. In this situation, the Qur'an was a stage prop. That's all. Jones' actions would have had the same effect if he had burned "Valley Of The Dolls" with a mock-Qur'an cover slapped onto it. The wrongdoing here is in the intent.

You wrote: "Why does the 'provocation of homicide condemnation standard' apply only to this on act?"

I say: It doesn't, and I didn't say it does. Read more carefully.

You write: "And how specific and particular is this standard of 'its only appalling if it leads to murder'? Does it only apply to Terry Jones and his burning of a Quran because he was previously in the limelight for daring to do so and so many anxious Muslims were watching him with baited breath? Does it apply to anyone who burns a Quran? Or anyone who burns a holy book? Or makes a cartoon after they've been warned that certain believers will respond violently?"

I say: This paragraph begins with a faulty assumption, which makes the subsequent questions difficult to answer. Nevertheless:

1) You've got the standard wrong. It's "serene indifference to murder is always appalling," not "it's only appalling if it leads to murder." The latter strikes me as a rather stupid position.

2) No. (See article.)

3) No. (See article.)

4) No. (See article.)

5) Maybe! Depends on the circumstances.

Again, thank you for reading. No more responses until you identify yourself.

- BKT

CSMcDonald
CSMcDonald

You're arguing two sides of this argument differently.The Mohammed cartoons were OK but burning the Koran was not why?

What about the artist who burned a Koran and edited the Bible in protest of their anti-gay messages? Was he in the right where Terry Jones was not?

http://www.associatedcontent.c...

Jones is a moron seeking media attention - the media delivered. Extremists in Afghanistan played into his scheme and provided actions that he can use as proof of his righeousness.

I blame the media as much as anyone for making this yahoo a celebrity.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

CSM:

I agree with you, w/r/t the media. He shouldn't have been paid attention to in the first place.

That said: I believe my article's primary point is in drawing distinctions between different forms of sacrilege. Perhaps that wasn't sufficiently clear. If not, mea culpa.

- BKT

Guest
Guest

"Jones is a moron seeking media attention - the media delivered. Extremists in Afghanistan played into his scheme and provided actions that he can use as proof of his righeousness."

After Jones's posturing last fall, our media had grown tired of him. When Jones chickened out of burning it for the first time, the Westboro Baptist Church actually did burn a Quran, but there was no media firestorm and to my knowledge, no Afghan riots.

When he actually burned the Quran this time, the American media hardly paid attention at first. It was given minor mention in some newspapers or local television stations. It was only when Hamid Karzai opportunistically gave a speech about it and the resulting mob murders occurred that our media started delivering to Jones and giving him interviews.

Karzai wanted to score some points with his discontented population and he is the one who milked the media on this one. Christopher Hitchens called it right. http://www.slate.com/id/229030...

Roym_2000
Roym_2000

i think terry jones has the right to do what he did. this country was founded on christian principles. if you don't like what we are get to hell out and go back from where you came from. don't come here and try to change things to your way and try to force me to agree with you - you are NUTS. get out and stay out.

nanook
nanook

so if by exercising my right to free speech it resulted in murdering your entire family, and you have a problem with that, your only recourse is to leave the country as well?

you seem to afflicted by "bigoted wingnut syndrome," do you really think the writer is a foreign-born muslim?!?

Megalodon
Megalodon

That's a risk we all live with. You might say something that enrages some "bigoted wingnut" so much that he tries to firebomb your house, but because he gets the address wrong or his aim is bad, he firebombs your neighbor's house and the neighbor's family dies in the fire. Would your neighbor be right to blame you and seek "recourse" against you? If only you hadn't mouthed off to the "bigoted wingnuts."

SMDrPepper
SMDrPepper

That blood spilled in Afghanistan is on the hands of Terry Jones. Pure and simple. One does not calm a wasp nest by poking at it with a stick which is what he has done.Never mind the fact that we are supposed to be morally superior and the peacemakers. Why the hell would they listen to the Unites States as we desecrate something they hold so dear? This is the same as if they came to the Washington Mall on Fourth of July and burned a flag. To most THINKING people, its just a piece of cloth. But it would make most of the country riot just like in Afghanistan, though maybe not in the same ways. Then again if people riot if their team wins/loses in this country.Yes, Jones has free speech, but it is still illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater. I say this is pretty much what he has done. Deaths have happened thanks to this right wing lunatic and there should be charges.

Guest
Guest

"This is the same as if they came to the Washington Mall on Fourth of July and burned a flag."

So if Muslim persons came to the Washington Mall on the Fourth of July and burned an American flag, and I murdered some other Muslim persons in retaliation for that, the Muslim flag burners would also be culpable for the murder I committed?

But why would the flag burning even have to be in the Washington Mall? Jones burned the Quran in Gainesville, not Mecca or Mazar-i-Sharif, and you're saying that inculpates him for murders committed by Muslim persons in Afghanistan.

So if I see a video of Iranian Muslims burning an American flag or a video of Palestinians cheering when 9/11 happened, and I kill some American Muslim persons in retaliation, then the Iranian flag burners and Palestinian celebrants are also responsible for those murders?

nanook
nanook

muslim fundamentalists in the middle east and afghanistan ARE responsible for oppression against muslims in america, not to mention that we've justified killing tens of thousands of muslims in foreign countries based on activities in elsewhere. king's islamic radicalization hearings, the "victory mosque," any of this sound familiar? the entire point of 9-11 was to make americans rationalize acting equally barbarous.

Megalodon
Megalodon

When Muslim fundamentalists actually commit crimes and violence, then perhaps there is an argument that they share some blame for the backlash prejudice that is inflicted on their non-violent co-religionists.

But the not-so-hypothetical Muslim persons I cited were not committing crimes or violence. They were burning an American flag, espousing their hatred of a country and expressing their happiness at the news of Americans dying or being injured. Those actions are within their rights to free expression, as were Jones's actions, though the Muslim countries do not heed that right so well. The poster above said that Jones's actions made him responsible for the acts of violence perpetrated by enraged Muslims, and said his actions were akin to Muslims burning an American flag. So by implication, such protesting Muslims would be responsible for an American who murders a random Muslim after seeing that demonstration.

Both arguments are ridiculous and legitimize the heckler's veto. They are predicated upon some notion that if the exercise of your rights can provoke some people to violence, then you can be blamed for that violence. Flag burning and espousing your hatred of a country, religion or people is a fundamental right, whether it is done by Muslims, Christians, rednecks or anti-war hippies. Any persons spurred to violence by the exercise of rights are solely responsible for their crimes. Since the hate groups and hate crimes have supposedly increased since Obama's election, then perhaps all of us who voted for Obama share the blame for the subsequent hate crimes? After all, weren't we warned?

Gregory Smith
Gregory Smith

Oh, so Muslims aren't responsible for their own actions? You're sick, dude. This is either a free country or it isn't. Petraeus has forgotten that this war is about FREEDOM! Yet instead of fighting for freedom, he's fighting for political correctness and censorship.

Underage and want a drink? Join the military in Alaska. http://libertarians4freedom.bl...

SMDrPepper
SMDrPepper

Never said they were not responsible. They are. But it was Jones who stirred them up to kill. You do not give a loaded gun to the local crazies. And if you do, you are also responsible for what they do.The problem is the war is not about freedom at all. Because of people like Jones, it becomes about ideology. Did you ever stop and think one of the reasons these people are fighting so hard is because we invaded them? And wont leave? Petraeus, since you brought him up, is fighting a war of subjugation, pure and simple.Hate to say it, they have a really good reason to be fighting us. Jones just gave them a match to light the dynamite.We are supposed to be the moral high ground, what every other nation is supposed to want to become. Yet here is this putz burning their sacred texts. Its like taking a dump on the pope in the middle of the Vatican.

Jean
Jean

Jones is a douche bag

Roym_2000
Roym_2000

i think jones is a hero and patriot -

Gentile Avenger
Gentile Avenger

Jones is a simpleton.

Why fan the flames of a fire that would put anybody in harms way?

If he believes so much in his "god" then he could have just burned the book in anonymity and his "god" would have acknowledged his act without any fanfare.

He is a publicity seeking retard, nothing more.

But the Laws of the Universe will look at him with a more discerning eye.

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