Universal Health Care: The Greatest Moral Issue of Our Time

The Republican Party tries to pretend it has a monopoly on morality, but it's so drenched in sin right now that it ought to be able to feel the hellfire licking its feet.

carreragabriel1.jpg
Fort Lauderdale Tea Party leader Gabriel Carrera plays dress-up as a minuteman.
The rotten Tea Party has in its hysterical way likened Obama's attempts to provide everyone with health insurance to treason.

As usual, those yahoos -- while trying to play the role of true patriots -- were only doing the dirty work, wittingly or not, for health insurance companies and all other interests that rake in enormous profits when people get sick.

Just look at how our morally bankrupt Republican governor made his fraudulent fortune. No wonder Rick Scott and the Tea Party are always off making out in the corner of the room. 

I've seen the damage caused by the lack of health insurance. I've seen people suffer and die because they don't have health insurance.

It's a god damned crime.

I'm sure this will be viewed as an example of me showing my partisanship. It's not. It's a simple matter of right and wrong. 

The Christian Right tries to be so holy when it brings its twisted version of God into government (falsely citing the founding fathers who expressly opposed such a thing) and when it refuses gay people the right to get married (where's the freedom in that, hypocrites?). But when it comes to real life and death issues, it screams, "Let them die!" It is supreme selfishness, the mighty dollar over flesh and blood, the GOP's way.

Inside, see what triggered this little rant.

From a story about Mark Erdman in TCPalm.com. Erdman hit on hard times during the construction bust but was intent on turning it around. Then he got a toothache. From the story: 

erdman.jpg
TCPalm.com
Erdman
Without health insurance, [Erdman] delayed going to the dentist for as long as he could. Over-the-counter acetaminophen and ibuprofen helped him endure the pain.

Erdman had done well during the boom years as a self-employed gutter and insulation contractor, but his business did not survive the construction bust. Private health insurance was unaffordable for his family of four, even after he landed a new sales job.

"We were making six figures and had money in the bank, insurance and everything -- and we just lost it all. Lost it all," said his wife, Renee Erdman.

That was bearable because she still had him, her husband of 19 years.

He was the life of the party, the father of her two children; the Pop Warner football coach and the guy who would change a stranger's tire on the side of the road.

Now, she has lost Mark too.

The Tylenol and ibuprofen he had been taking for his toothache contributed to fatal damage to his liver and kidneys, Renee said doctors told her. At one point, he took eight over-the counter pills in a single day. He knew it was more than the recommended dose, but he never expected it to take his life...

"It's so sick. It's like he was unknowingly killing himself," Renee said Monday. "And should you find yourself without insurance, forget it."

Mark was initially admitted at Martin Memorial Medical Center, which does not perform organ transplants. A hospital representative in Orlando told Renee a liver transplant would cost $195,000, with 50 percent of that to be paid up-front, as she recalls it.

"I just sat there and said, 'I don't have that kind of money laying around,'" she remembered.

Make no mistake: With 50 million people without health insurance, people die every day because America is the only developed country in the world that doesn't provide universal health care.

Read the entire story here.


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47 comments
Gatorfl
Gatorfl

To AndrewM,

In reply to this: "The complete and total dissatisfaction" that you assert the British people have with their system is nothing but a total myth. Another myth amongst Americans is that countries that provide a national health care system do not allow for private insurance options should people want them. Your own example demonstrates that if Britons are dissatisfied, then they can purchase additional coverage and/or offer that through employers.

I take it you've never lived or worked in the UK. I have, and have family that lives there as well. The majority of Britons are dissatisfied with the quality of their healthcare, this is not a myth but firsthand experience living and working in the UK. Their system is a failure for anything other than routine care. Additionally, they are taxed heavily for their public health system and have to spend money out of pocket for additional insurance to get quality care. I'm only telling you this because nationalized healthcare does have major issues.

You are the kind of person that will whine and whine until healthcare is offered, and then you will whine because it doesn't meet your needs.

PlayItAgainSam
PlayItAgainSam

Pulp & Pulpsters-

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/he...

Uninsured man's self-treatment for toothache hastens deathBy Eve Samples, TCPalm.com 9:47 p.m. EDT, March 16, 2011

Explain the "Partisan Politics" to this family - absolutely unconscienable. Anyone caught even thing the words "Obamacare" should suffer this same fate.

TheStreet
TheStreet

When a company falls on difficult times, one of the things that seems to happen is they reduce their staff and workers. The remaining workers must find ways to continue to do a good job or risk that their job would be eliminated as well.

Wall street and the media normally congratulate the CEO for making this type of "tough decision", and the board of directors gives upper corporate management big bonuses.. Our government should not be immune from similar risks. Therefore: Reduce the House of Representatives from the current 435 members to 218 members. Reduce Senate members from 100 to 50 (one per State). Then, reduce their remaining staff by 25%.

Let's just do it.

Jack Carlo
Jack Carlo

Thank you. You spoke from your gut, your heart and your brain.... This has NOTHING to do with politics and partisanship. It has ALL to do with ethics, humanity and the sickening rise of hatred in our country towards each other. Right now as I write this, hundreds of thousands of people are being 'radiated'......he or she who thinks that this could not happen here in USA, right now, is a fool. Wouldn't it be magical to learn from this horrific tragedy and bond together as one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice (and healthcare) for all!

Rayboyusmc
Rayboyusmc

I worked for a managed care company for 7 years. There were good people there trying to do the right thing, but the system itself if driven by greed with no real respect for a human life.

this crap about the democrats health care plan being unconsitutional is total bullship. this is fostered by the money from the health care lobbies and foisted on those who can be fooled all off the time. I'm not sure what context the "class warfare" comment was made in, but there is a class warfare going on right now. It is the rich and current republican party trying to destroy the middle class workers who have built this country. I don't hate the rich or even evny them, but they get so much more from this country they can afford to pay more in taxes.

the middle class and poor send their sons and daughters to die for this country while the rich make the money. Right, carlyle group & daddy bush? general semedly butler two time medal of honor winner, wrote a book in 1928 called "war is a racket" Look it up on line itls all there and it hasn't changed.

we, the most powerful country in the wordl, rank 37th in health care. I believe there is a statement somewhere about "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of..." quality healthcare is a right of every amercian citizen and is affordable if we cut out all the greedy executives who make millions or like the United Health care ceo who made 500 million in stock options in 5 years.

Please, Medicare works and it works a lot cheaper even with the crooks who take advantage of it.

scott says we need to listen to a business man like him: what the fruck is he talking about? either he was incompetent or a crook. sort of like Jeb bush bragging about his business background when he busted the broward savings and loan and gave us the bill.

Yidmomaredux
Yidmomaredux

loookie here i have 24/7 health coverage in my new digslove ya,the scooter

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Bravo Pulp! Don't listen to the detractors who say you are partisan. As you correctly point out, this isn't a partisan issue. This is a human rights issue. And there are literally thousands of other stories of hard working class people like Erdman who are oppressed by the fascists in the GOP and their evil ideology.

We are on the right side of history. History will treat the fascists and their stooges--the teabaggers--very harshly.

liarjew
liarjew

And yet, the Jew-controlled US Imperial armed forces will spend $1.2 trillion on yet another war and the Jew run US will be giving Israel even more than the $80 billion/year AID since Jew US President Harry Truman 'created' Israel in 1948. Since 1948, ALL US Presidents, but JFK, are converts from Judaism (Bushes) or have Jew blood, including Mr Obama who recently cast yet another of the 80% UN Vetoes to stop condemning CHOSEN Israel for its genocides against Arabs, true M.E. Christians and Moslems! JFK was killed by Jew L H Oswald who was shot dead inside the Dallas P.D and covered up by Jews LBJ, Conolly, Ford, Nixon, Warren and 12 tribes! When will the US government take care of its 'gentiles' (Jew for all leprous others) and treat Americans at least 1/100 as well as it does genocide-committing Israel! US government must know that when you support an evil Israel, you are evil too!

Dave E
Dave E

We cannot afford Obama Care which is actually a big mess. Anthony Weiner actually said at a town hall meeting: "I wrote the bill. ... The bill and I are one", and today we are seeing what a loon he really is. And you cannot mix alcohol with tylenol or take more than is directed without consequences.

Gatorfl
Gatorfl

Healthcare is a huge issue. I agree that there needs to be some kind of coverage. But what was passed is One Big Ass Mistake America. Instead of mandatory coverage how about a government system (enhanced medicare/medicaid) for those who can't get coverage? I've worked abroad and I can tell you most Britons HATE their healthcare system. Supplemental healthcare insurance is offered by many employers in the UK because the state run system is so poor. Having Obamacare will lead to the same thing here so we should be careful and enact a system that will work. About the story above. I think the story was very poorly written. It presents one side of an argument. It also presents some very poor choices by the deceased and his wife. This was one big gamble by the guy and it backfired and cost him and his family dearly.

First--Obamacare does NOT include dental. So even if it were active, Obamacare would not have helped this guy. He needed a tooth pulled.

Simple research shows a tooth extraction is less than $200 at most dental offices. Why didn't he go see a dentist and see if it could be pulled for free or with small payments?

While it is tragic this guy lost his life over a toothache, a reality check is in order. Are we supposed to insure anybody who is abusing drugs? The article states that he took too many painkillers and his liver failed. I have a bottle of Tylenol right here. Clearly printed on the bottle is the warning about taking taking too much or for too long or liver damage could occur. He gambled and lost.

The article alludes to the fact that he was making 6 figures a year but he didn't save for a rainy day. Is that my fault? You want to take money out of my pocket to pay to get a tooth pulled for a guy who made really good money for a long time and squandered it? That doesn't seem fair to me.

Why did he wait so long to get help? It wasn't until his health was seriously jeopardized that his wife sought help via Medicaid. Doing nothing until it is too late is the same thing as ignorance in my book.

I know a lot of you will fire back at me for being heartless. I feel for the guy's family. I really do. It is a tragedy a really good man died, but he died because he made poor choices--not because he lacked health insurance.

KennyPowersSays
KennyPowersSays

50 million without any, and how many more with inferior plans? Can't complain about the quality of life in this country, because there is none.

DeathFrog3
DeathFrog3

I see a way to fix our economy rather quickly.

Take over Iraq... We as a nation have spent hundreds of billions of dollars there. Lets get it back out of the ground. We dont like to use the word empire but what the fuck... Pay the US people back for what we have spent over there. Or we can run it like Guam or PR and we keep the oil rights... give us a seat at OPEC.

DeathFrog3
DeathFrog3

I dont believe Pulp has ever hidden his political leanings from anyone. Even Ray Charles can see it. I dont know that I agree with his stance on everything but I do believe that both parties are hypocrites.

How can you be pro-life and support the death penalty and vice versa?

The hypocracy is prevelant... The reality is while we are arguing about gays getting married we're climbing further in debt and the pols from both sides are cashing in. As much as the left likes to complain about rich republicans... look at the top wealthiest people in the county/world and look at their political leanings. Gates, Buffett, Oprah, Ted Turner, etc... The fact is the wealth like to distract the middle class with idealogical debates while they pay for the politicians and line their pockets.

Luther
Luther

If we weren't spending trillions of dollars fighting useless wars that DO NOT have anything to do with United States National Security and supporting these same rogue nation(s) with billions of taxpayers dollars in so called foriegn aid there would be plenty of wealth to go around to ensure that EVERY WORKING AMERICAN would have proper health care, functional schools and sound infrastructure.

Look at the big picture, we are spending all of our national wealth on a military industrial complex that has nothing to do with protecting OUR BORDERS!!!

But they sure do spend a lot of time looking out for somebody elses "interests".

Disgusting
Disgusting

All so the upper 0.5% of society can each have a few more million in the bank.

Themugs
Themugs

" so drenched in sin right now that it ought to be able to feel the hellfire licking its feet"

"The rotten Tea Party"

"those yahoos ...were only doing the dirty work, ... for health insurance companies"

You, partisan?

Abc
Abc

boring.

AndrewM
AndrewM

Whining about government programs meeting our needs is called, oh, what's the term? Petitioning your government. That's what you're supposed to do.

The British health care system is likely not meeting the needs and satisfactions of its citizens because of massive spending cuts directed towards ordinary workers and citizens for the benefit of the super-wealthy and corporate interests that have not paid their taxes. If Vodafone paid it's share, that would fund entire school programs across Britain. The wealthiest man in all the UK has paid little to no taxes. That is the result of the efforts of a plutocracy. Democracies are always in battle with the plutocrats, but in England and in America, the super-rich and multi-national corporate interests are winning.

The solution is not to eliminate a national health care system. The solution is to continually improve it. The right wing will always decimate social programs so that minions like you will be led to the conclusion that they don't work. You're being duped.

Gatorfl
Gatorfl

Please read my post above. That article was poorly written. It is a tragedy that man died but he had nobody to blame but himself. He died because he made a multitude of poor decisions and that is fact. Obamacare would not have solved his root problem (bad tooth) because Obamacare does not offer dental coverage. He could have gotten the bad tooth pulled at any dentist for about $200.

PlayItAgainSam
PlayItAgainSam

Typo-Sorry

Anyone caught even "thinking" the words "Obama Care" should suffer this same fate.

AndrewM
AndrewM

Yes! Just what we need! Less democratic representation! Few people gaining access to petition their government for their needs and grievances! Congressional representatives representing millions and millions of more people in each district with fewer staff! That's the ticket!

Stay in school.

Guest
Guest

Virgil and Pulp.... You're both fantastic! I so agree with youThank you for expressing so well what I also feel so strongly about!

Ind_Thinker
Ind_Thinker

Great post Virgil. You argue that it's not a partisan issue and then, in the same paragraph, state, "[w]ho are oppressed by the fascists in the GOP and their evil ideology." Way to go . . One of your all time best!

You're right, Bob's not a partisan at all. Oh wait, let me go back and read this paragraph again:

"The Christian Right tries to be so holy when it brings its twisted version of God into government (falsely citing the founding fathers who expressly opposed such a thing) and when it refuses gay people the right to get married (where's the freedom in that, hypocrites?). But when it comes to real life and death issues, it screams, "Let them die!" It is supreme selfishness, the mighty dollar over flesh and blood, the GOP's way."

Slow down Bob; that's an awfully broad brush you're painting with. Are you lambasting the Christian Right (gay marriage part), Tea Party (the freedom hating hypocrites) or the GOP (supreme selfishisness)? Your paragraph doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The Christian Right doesn't typically advocate for freedom or focus on the almighty dollar. The Tea Partiers I know aren't concerned the "religion in gov't" advocacy or gay marriage. The GOP "almighty dollar" crowd aren't really concerned about religion or gay marriage, although they do pander to those constituents.

If you're throwing them all together, is it equally fair to look at the socialist, tree hugging, welfare promoting, union supporting, anarchist, wanna be hippie democrats? Wait a second, what am I even talking about? It's not a partisan issue. Right?

Guest
Guest

You have your head up your ass.

Anonymous
Anonymous

What do you mean "we can't afford...". The health care bill mandates that everyone pay for their own insurance. Many people do not currently pay for their own insurance and we are all left to foot the bill. The health care act eliminates that.

AndrewM
AndrewM

As Bob wrote, "America is the only developed country in the world that doesn't provide universal health care." The British health care system is entirely different than the Affordable Health Care Act, and it's entirely different from what most other "first-world" nations provide for their citizens. Most other European countries, Australia, South Korea, Japan, etc, provide a very different system of health care from what the UK provides. Besides that, Britons may have some dissatisfactions with their health care system, but you have been duped if you believe that its mostly unpopular.

The Health Care Act that you're so opposed to is designed on the Republican plans of days past, but the Republicans haven't attempted to make their own ideas national because they want to continually appease the insurance industry for the short-term rather than look at the industry and the nation's long-term interests. Now they're trying to serve their own electoral interests by opposing anything from the current administration no matter what they truly think about it. The congressional Democrat's strategy had been to appease the industry and Republicans by utilizing Republican ideas, such as mandated purchases of private insurance promoted by Orin Hatch and Mitt Romney and other Republicans over the years, but they misunderstood how the Republicans would pretend that they had never backed any such proposals and call it "Obamacare."

Health care costs and the American health insurance industry are both unsustainable for the near future. The Act simply opens up the purchase of health insurance to many more Americans. That's it. Not a good solution compared to a Medicare-for-all system, especially in regards to costs and access, but better than what we've got. The British system is truly government-run health care, and the Affordable Health Care Act doesn't even give a taste of that kind of direction.

But why try to explain to you, Gatorfl? You are one of those too-many Americans who are irreversibly inclined to engage in the divide & conquer strategy of the right-wing. Thus your pointing the finger and accusing the victim of the lack of readily affordable dental care and social programs that encourage preventative care rather than pointing the finger at the cultural values laid upon us by decades of incompetent and uncaring political hacks and the minions like you who believe their talking points.

Abc
Abc

It's not a "story" it's a blog post. Bob hasn't written a "story" with journalistic impartiality and writing standards in some time. I don't blame him, he gets the New Times more web hits from the Daily Pulp than he ever generated in his well-researched articles and columns in the print edition. The Pulp has never stated that the Daily Pulp is Journalism. Funny though, since when it began, it was a blog about the newspaper industry...

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Who is "we"? You think the Oil Giants give a crap about us? Oil was way cheaper when Saddaam was in power because he was overproducing it to counteract the sanctions that were in place since Gulf War 1.

"We" aka Big Oil, attacked Saddaam because they wanted to steal his oil and slow down production, thus raising the price of oil and increasing their profit.

Greg Palast has written about this at length.

Hello....McFly......

Luther
Luther

It would have been a lot cheaper to cut a deal with Iraq to buy their oil instead of invading it for oil and other reasons.

And didn't we go to Iraq to "free the Iraqis and spread democracy"?

Can't have it both ways.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

As usual, you are completely full of shit on these political issues. "We" are not arguing about gays getting married. Only the knuckledraggers in your party are arguing about this, because they still live in the dark ages. Anyone with half a brain understands that sexuality is largely genetic and therefore you are discriminating against people for their very nature, something they have no control over whatsoever.

Secondly, the only people being distracted by all of these political arguments are middle class conservatives. Progressives are on the right side of history and understand that the wealthy manipulate the idiots in the middle class right.

Middle class conservatives are stooges for the elite.

Seriously, look at the police officers across the country who are now fighting for their pensions and livelihoods.

What else would you call a former police officer, a union member, who voted Republican his whole life?

Stooge.

B_tan
B_tan

If we weren't spending $ in foreign aid or foreign wars, health care would still be an issue because the argument isn't over whether we have enough money to support ppl's health or not - it's a value based argument over individual responsibility vs collective (govt) responsibility. Teabaggers believe that individuals should have the responsibility... which is why they're pouncing on Michelle Obama for promoting healthy eating for our kids. They don't want govt to be telling them "what to do" - even at risk of public health hazards.

nanook5
nanook5

class warfare is not technically partisan.

Ind_Thinker
Ind_Thinker

In reply to your post several above (won't let me reply directly due to nesting of posts) - Way to stick to the playbook. If someone doesn't believe that big government is the answer to a problem, they're immediately labeled a fascist. I think you were also supposed to automatically call me "racist" and "hate monger" but I will let those omissions slide.

I suggest that you might want to do a little more reading on the topic of fascism. While you're at it, take a look at the CBO's accuracy. Brilliant operation that is. I don't put much faith in opinions that are based on flawed assumptions (e.g., you can increase marginal tax rates to 90% and taxpayers' behavior won't change). The CBO has historically done a fantastic job of predicting the costs of large scale projects, such as medicare. I'm sure the Obamacare predictions will be right on the money.

Also, anyone that says the Clerk of the Court, DMV, and IRS are run "exceedingly well" must be a governmental employee, probably from one of those agencies. You're damn right I'm opposed to paying more taxes so that those agencies can be even "better." It's not lack of funding that's the problem.

Ind_Thinker
Ind_Thinker

You cannot seriously believe that everyone is going to pay for their own insurance under the health care act.

Gatorfl
Gatorfl

I have lived and worked in the UK so I know firsthand the complete and total dissatisfaction their people have with nationalized healthcare. It is regarded as a joke for anything other than emergency care. All good companies in the UK offer private health insurance as an employment benefit--this is fact. If their system were so perfect, why would this be happening?

I cannot comment on other nations as my time on the mainland was pretty brief.

Moving back the othe USA, I do think that the uninsured deserve some kind of coverage. I don't care who wrote Obamacare, my opinion is that it is a poor program. Everybody is legislated to buy coverage and that is simply wrong. If you can't afford coverage then it should be provided to you. That would satisfy the right and the left.

envy is bad
envy is bad

Sounds like someone is expressing "sour grapes"

Gatorfl
Gatorfl

Also I should mention that the article was over at TC Palm, Bob did not write it. Still, he could have researched some of the facts convieniently left out of the article before using it as a grandstand.

Gatorfl
Gatorfl

When Bob wants to he is extremely articulate with the facts. Look up any story he's written about Stacy Ritter or JenJen.

Luther
Luther

Individual responsibilities would not be so expensive if HMO's were not involved and that is a fact.

Perhaps the best introduction to the Kaiser HMO and Kaiser Permanente Medical Care Plan is the summary by Mr. Edgar Kaiser that the less Kaiser does for patients the more money it makes. To get the full context one can go to the University of Virginia and review the presentation Mr. Edgar Kaiser (then Kaiser CEO) made to President Nixon through Mr. Erlichman — the less we do the more we earn. This convinced President Nixon to go forward with the HMO Act of 1973 with Kaiser as the template. The conversation is recorded below within the Nixon White House Tapes:John D. Ehrlichman: “On the … on the health business …”President Nixon: “Yeah.”Ehrlichman: “… we have now narrowed down the vice president’s problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser’s Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don’t think they’ll work, but if the President thinks it’s a good idea, I’ll support him a hundred percent.’”President Nixon: “Well, what’s … what’s the judgment?”Ehrlichman: “Well, everybody else’s judgment very strongly is that we go with it.”President Nixon: “All right.”Ehrlichman: “And, uh, uh, he’s the one holdout that we have in the whole office.”President Nixon: “Say that I … I … I’d tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it’s, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I’m not to keen on any of these damn medical programs.”Ehrlichman: “This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …”President Nixon: [Unclear.]Ehrlichman: “This … this is a …”President Nixon: “I don’t [unclear] …”Ehrlichman: “… private enterprise one.”President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”President Nixon: [Unclear.]Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]Ehrlichman: [Unclear] “… and the incentives run the right way.”President Nixon: “Not bad.”

The preceding transcription is from the University of Virginia for the clearest possible presentation (pathway discovered by Vickie Travis). Check - February 17, 1971, 5:26 pm - 5:53 pm, Oval Office Conversation 450-23. Look for: tape rmn_e450c.

AndrewM
AndrewM

It is not an opposition to "big government" that could be tied to fascistic tendencies in one's thinking, "Ind_Thinker." It's a persistent belief that private, for-profit corporate interests could better run what we customarily think of as government services, including elections, tax collection, basic infrastructure, public licensing and public policies- such as, oh, I dunno... health care.

A person tending towards the values of fascism believes that corporate interests supersede the concept fostered by John Locke/Rousseau/Jefferson/Paine/Lincoln, etc. That concept is self-governance- of the people, by the people and for the people.

The right-wing as well as libertarians insist that our federal government, as well as any other local governments, are entities separate from our founding concepts, unaccountable to and uncontrolled by the people who are governed. That is a meme set forth on a daily basis by hack politicians and political pundits to dupe people like you, "Ind_Thinker," into believing that large, multi-national corporate entities and "private enterprise" that funds political campaigns and strives to continually increase not only profits but influence over government better serve your individual interests and the collective interest. The continual assertion is that business interests will do a better job of governing us than will the precept of our self-governance, despite whatever had been already debated and then explicated in the Declaration of Independence, constructed under the Constitution and emulated more recently by every other first-world nation.

You should take satisfaction in the recent successes in state capitols as well as in court decisions, "Ind_Thinker," to turn over our governance to private, for-profit interests, as exemplified by actual legislation currently passed by the Michigan house. We are witnessing efforts set forth by FL governor Rick Scott and many other corporate PIRATES masquerading as politicians to continue to garner success in not only elections but in stuffing the nation's courts with judiciaries who ran for election with corporately financed campaigns. The legislators can then better rely on the courts to pass along a new paradigm throughout America- one that you may like a lot better than that "big government" that you think you don't like.

Eliminating all business taxes in Florida and paying for it by de-funding public education isn't only a radical maneuver here and elsewhere- it's only just the beginning. We're not even a few months into the new governorship and legislative session, and we're facing putting the tax burden entirely on the backs of the working folk and giving the representation to legal entities called corporations, even those with a plethora of foreign investments and investors. Oh yeah, and refusing to implement the Health Care Act state insurance exchange as passed by the Congress despite accepting the federal funds allocated for that purpose. But isn't that just a Rick Scott-y thing to do? By the way, if you need any pills of any sort, his clinics throughout the state will happily sell them to you directly, no pesky doctor in the way of that, and perhaps the state legislature will pass along vouchers to encourage you to do just that. Only redeemable at Solantic, perhaps,... but we'll see.

So take heart. Your values that oppose government but that favor private business may not be what's formulated in our nation's founding documents, but such values may be implemented anyways if they can get through two state houses and the courts across the nation. Being called a fascist isn't an insult. It's a description of an ideology in regards to running a state and/or nation. Google it and learn. And stand proud for what you are. Show your pride in your ideology by unabashedly naming it rather than assuming that it's already named in our founding principles- because it's not. Self-governance is, which is getting bigger and bigger as the population grows, as a big nation that relies on representation for each and every American relies on what you call "big government." Oh well, "Ind_Thinker," all those too many Americans can be an extraordinarily pesky bunch. Let's round 'em up and corporatize 'em!

AndrewM
AndrewM

Oh, and by the way, the DMV, the Clerk of Courts and the IRS are all run exceedingly well. To compare, try living somewhere where such services are much, much worse. They could all be run much better, but gee, you'd have to be willing to pay for that. Furthermore, there's so much governmental infrastructure that you take for granted every day and probably don't realize that it's your government and government subsidies that provide them.

AndrewM
AndrewM

Nobody's claims that the health care bill will "reduce costs and reducing the deficit." Oh, except for the Congressional Budget Office making that claim about the later part. But who are they? Just some liberal propaganda outfit.

If you don't believe in government programs and believe that private industry should control access to health care and other public services, then I suggest that you google the word "fascism" and read extensively about it. It may sound like a derogatory word to you tossed around by tea baggers and the like, but it may actually be a system that is better suited to your own beliefs.

Ind_Thinker
Ind_Thinker

To AndrewM below (site would not let me reply to his post) - and you really think that the majority of taxpayers are going to pay that tax? Take a look at the federal income tax system. I keep hearing this wealth-envy nonsense about everybody needs to pay their fair share. Take a guess at what percentage of taxpayers don't pay any income tax. You're naive if you think this will be any different.

And before the counter-attacks start calling me stooge for the wealthy republicans, let me give you some background. I own my own business, and I not super-rich, not even close to it. As a business owner, I pay for my own health insurance, my family's health insurance, and my employees' health insurance. If anyone on this site understands rising health insurance costs, it's me. Something needs to be done to reform the system. Massively increasing the federal bureaucracy is NOT the answer. You're dreaming if you think Obama's health care plan is going to reduce costs and reduce the deficit. Somebody please show me one federal government program that works anywhere close to the budgeted amounts.

More government is not the answer. Do you pro-gov't folks ever deal with the DMV, IRS, Clerk of the Courts, VA, etc. . . .?? All of them are run really well. I'm sure the government will do an equally great job administering the health care program.

In closing, screw the GOP also for playing politics with this issue and not proposing any real non-government solutions until it was too late.

AndrewM
AndrewM

A tax is raised to contribute to the costs of providing care to the uninsured. So, you either buy insurance or have insurance through an employer or a spouse, or you have Medicare or Medicaid, and then the tax is waived. If you have no access to health insurance, then the states set up an exchange with policies that meet federal guidelines, and you can choose from amongst them for a policy that you want to purchase- and if you don't, then you're taxed. The tax is much lower than the likely cost of insurance, however, so the system still relies on people being willing to participate on their own volition in buying private insurance.

AndrewM
AndrewM

But, Gatorfl, we were nowhere near to providing some kind of coverage for everyone, including those who cannot afford it. Our national government is so entirely corrupted by for-profit corporate interests funding political campaigns, and the health insurance industry has legalized monopolies throughout the country. What we were left with by the time the bill came up for a vote were crumbs. We took the crumbs. If you don't like it, you need to pine for major electoral reforms and start getting educated on what those should be (FLIER- Florida Initiative for Electoral Reform: www.floridaelectoralreform.org) and focus on a national health care system that would provide what it is that you want.

"The complete and total dissatisfaction" that you assert the British people have with their system is nothing but a total myth. Another myth amongst Americans is that countries that provide a national health care system do not allow for private insurance options should people want them. Your own example demonstrates that if Britons are dissatisfied, then they can purchase additional coverage and/or offer that through employers.

The reason that Republicans cite polls that show that many Americans don't like the health care bill is for three reasons: one, some people don't like it. Two: some people don't know much about it but hear Republican talking points, and three: a lot of people don't think it goes far enough and doesn't truly address rising costs. Very, very few people and politicians assert that the bill is an end-all and is a solution. In fact, I haven't heard anybody assert that. People like you assert that if it's far from perfect, then we should get NOTHING!

Take the crumb. This is America. As this nation presently stands, that's all you get. We could do better, but we could also do much, much, much worse, and the reforms provided by the health care bill would help to avoid that, despite what that entirely crooked pill pusher Rick Scott and his minions will tell you otherwise.

Luther
Luther

So in conclusion to all you idiots who bray on about "government intrusion" I would have to say that when the "intrusion" falls into the moneymaking side of the eqaution you are all for it but when it comes to protecting the quality of life issue for WORKING AMERICANS it is communism.

What of bunch of stupid hypocrits, emphasis on the STUPID!

And this was not directed at you B Tan.

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