Allen West Tells Muslim at a Town Hall Event: "You Attacked Us"


At a town hall meeting last night in Pompano, Allen West briefly sparred with a Qur'an-wielding supplicant who was there, in West's words, to "blow sunshine up his butt." (West always thinks Muslims want to blow something up.)

"You recently told a marine that the terrorists that attacked the United States, the people that are attacking America, are following Islam..." said the Muslim. "Can
you show me one verse in this Qur'an where it said to attack America, attack Americans, or attack innocent people?"

"Of course it doesn't say attack America!" said West. "The book was written back in the eighth, ninth century. America wasn't even around!" West then said something that was lost beneath the crowd's noisy consternation and pointed out that the Qur'an, while devoid of explicit anti-Americanism, does advocate the killing of infidels. Which is true.

The Muslim supplicant tried to have a debate on the subject, but the assembled Floridians wouldn't let him talk. They barely let Allen West talk. The congressman draws an excitable crowd.

West, unlike his supplicant, bulldozed right through the noise, doing his usual parlor trick of naming dates of alleged Muslim attacks upon peaceable, Christian Europeans. (We've debunked that trick here, but apparently to no good end.) When his supplicant finally found an opening in the surrounding roar and mentioned that West has "attacked Islam" (where he was going with that line of thought is anyone's guess, cuz he didn't get to finish), West said: "You attacked us!"

Some very ugly thinking was reflected in that line. West's Muslim supplicant was Nezar Hamze -- an American, just the same as West, and a full-time activist for the betterment of American-Islamic relations. But in West's line, he was excluded from "us" -- he was outside, other, Muslim -- and, most ominously, responsible for the attacks of 9/11, along with all of his coreligionists. West then told Hamze to "put the microphone down and go home" -- even though Hamze is a Floridian, even though Hamze had not disrupted the gathering, and even though West has been elected to represent Hamze's interests in Washington. This is no way to treat a constituent in a democracy.

Being challenged during a public speaking engagement is no fun, and perhaps one can sympathize with West's plight in that moment. I'd like West better if he'd been more gentlemanly, if he had quieted the crowd and given a fellow citizen his chance to speak. (This is a far manlier way to deal with a critic; alas, West was not fired from the military for an overabundance of bravery.) When you regularly vilify someone's entire ethnic heritage, that's perhaps the least you owe him.

But it's probably best that West did what he did. If we cannot have politicians free of bias, let us at least have politicians who lay their biases face-up on the table, as Allen West is pleased to do. And despite the ugliness in Pompano last night, Westwatchers may still find a reason for tempered optimism about the congressman's future relations with the Muslim world. In a letter to constituents this morning, West said he had been "honored" to hob-nob last week with Qubub Talabani. Of course, Qubub is the son of Iraqi president Jalal Talabani, and it would have been impolitic for West to say otherwise. So what? I find it reassuring to think that even the most impassioned bigot isn't above the occasional, tactful hypocrisy.

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95 comments
Martysplc
Martysplc

West was right and fed up with all the garbage the media like yourself are trying to shove down our throats as if we were blind, deaf and too dumb to see what is taking place worldwide!! I suppose you don't know that American MUSLIMS are fighting against our troops in Ethiopia?? Iraq, Iran, etc, etc, etc!!! AMERICAN MUSLIMS!!! Your the twisted one not West. We cannot sit idly by and watch another HOLOCAUST because we just don't think that it's that serious. What Islam proposes is genocide...and do you think you'll have a job? Media blackouts, shariah imposed. This website is  traitor to America!!!

Manny Torres
Manny Torres

Gene Robinson – President – Republican Club – Margate, Florida, U.S.A.

Hello Gene,

I just got back from HAITI, visiting and meeting top distributors like VALERIO CANEZ, S.A., and top members of the future parliamentary cabinet, such as the President of P.A.I.N. group, Agr Hebert Docteur, who is being picked as the equivalent of Minister of the Interior. I had the honor and privilege of staying “safely” with their families, in Port Au Price, as well as In Jeremie. Thank you for the opportunity to briefly explain at our next meeting, how we can provide a “sustainable working culture and business opportunities” in Haiti, and also provide thousands of job-opportunities for Florida businesses to participate in Haiti. I will be preparing a Delegation Report to the Broward County Commissioners, as well as to the office of Gov. Rick Scott, of how we can increase job opportunities in Florida, by doing business with Haiti.

But today, Sept. 11th, 2011, is an important date, and that is the reason why I am writing to you, a fellow American, and who’s father, like myself, was privileged to personally know and love, Ronald Reagan.

What would President Reagan have said to me, if he had seen the “Haitian spirit of survival” and their will to do business, every day, under the worst of conditions, and the constant reminder of misery ?? “Helping them is our duty as Americans, to do business, & not thru charity….because someday, they too will be Americans”

What would President Reagan have said to me after reading what Rep. Allen West’s views on not allowing the MUSLIM faith to set up in America, while allowing their religious Koran-practicing leaders in Iran and Syria, access to constantly trying to “kill the American Dream”…..which they finally did, 3,047 innocent American victims, on this day, 10 years ago ?? “They are not Americans, they are religious fanatics that are not welcomed to be part of the American Dream”

Recently, a Syrian-based, Koran-practitioner of the Islamic faith, by the name of RAED BAKOUNI, accused my company, TORRES & TORRES, of “fraudulent returns”, on the City of Margate’s Commissioner’s Campaign Report. Mr. Bakouni also used my image to personally attack my name by allowing CHANNEL 7’s HELP ME HOWARD/Patrick Frazier, and accuse me, while promoting his business, JIFFI PRINT, INC. Mr. Bakouni is using the public office of STATE OF FLORIDA’S ELECTIONS COMMISSION, as a means of collecting an incorrect amount invoiced to TORRES & TORRES, supposedly being $675.86. Not only is this an “incorrect invoice” to my company, TORRES & TORRES, but has nothing to do with Mr. Bakouni’s “CAMPAIGN FUNDS FRAUDULANT RETURN” accusation!!

What does this all mean ? Should we allow a Syrian-based resident, that also has U.S. residency, and a practicing member of the Islamic-Koran religion, be able to have the same rights as any American ?? Should we question, and investigate his business, JIFFI PRINT, as a possible “SYRIAN-BASED-CELL” ??

And should I, a former Cuban-Refugee, of Christian beliefs, and of the Roman Catholic faith, …and very, very proud to be an “American”, turn the other cheek, or look the other way while another attack on America is being planned, right in front of us ??

Reagan would have said: “Not on my watch”…and I would have to agree.

No religion has the right, to have the same rights as “any other decent and God-fearing religions”, here in America, if they were responsible for the training of 4 religious Islamic fanatics, to attack America with 4 aircrafts filled with innocent people, and cause so much bloodshed, tears, and a life-long hurt, in America’s hearts.

Not now, not 10 years ago,…not ten thousand light-years from now. Never !

See you Sept. 22; I will be in Orlando that weekend, 23rd and 24th Sept./2011, for the GOP “chats”.

Thanks, Gene. Manny Torres

Manny Torres
Manny Torres

Gene Robinson – President – Republican Club – Margate, Florida, U.S.A.

Hello Gene,

I just got back from HAITI, visiting and meeting top distributors like VALERIO CANEZ, S.A., and top members of the future parliamentary cabinet, such as the President of P.A.I.N. group, Agr Hebert Docteur, who is being picked as the equivalent of Minister of the Interior. I had the honor and privilege of staying “safely” with their families, in Port Au Price, as well as In Jeremie. Thank you for the opportunity to briefly explain at our next meeting, how we can provide a “sustainable working culture and business opportunities” in Haiti, and also provide thousands of job-opportunities for Florida businesses to participate in Haiti. I will be preparing a Delegation Report to the Broward County Commissioners, as well as to the office of Gov. Rick Scott, of how we can increase job opportunities in Florida, by doing business with Haiti.

But today, Sept. 11th, 2011, is an important date, and that is the reason why I am writing to you, a fellow American, and who’s father, like myself, was privileged to personally know and love, Ronald Reagan.

What would President Reagan have said to me, if he had seen the “Haitian spirit of survival” and their will to do business, every day, under the worst of conditions, and the constant reminder of misery ?? “Helping them is our duty as Americans, to do business, & not thru charity….because someday, they too will be Americans”

What would President Reagan have said to me after reading what Rep. Allen West’s views on not allowing the MUSLIM faith to set up in America, while allowing their religious Koran-practicing leaders in Iran and Syria, access to constantly trying to “kill the American Dream”…..which they finally did, 3,047 innocent American victims, on this day, 10 years ago ?? “They are not Americans, they are religious fanatics that are not welcomed to be part of the American Dream”

Recently, a Syrian-based, Koran-practitioner of the Islamic faith, by the name of RAED BAKOUNI, accused my company, TORRES & TORRES, of “fraudulent returns”, on the City of Margate’s Commissioner’s Campaign Report. Mr. Bakouni also used my image to personally attack my name by allowing CHANNEL 7’s HELP ME HOWARD/Patrick Frazier, and accuse me, while promoting his business, JIFFI PRINT, INC. Mr. Bakouni is using the public office of STATE OF FLORIDA’S ELECTIONS COMMISSION, as a means of collecting an incorrect amount invoiced to TORRES & TORRES, supposedly being $675.86. Not only is this an “incorrect invoice” to my company, TORRES & TORRES, but has nothing to do with Mr. Bakouni’s “CAMPAIGN FUNDS FRAUDULANT RETURN” accusation!!

What does this all mean ? Should we allow a Syrian-based resident, that also has U.S. residency, and a practicing member of the Islamic-Koran religion, be able to have the same rights as any American ?? Should we question, and investigate his business, JIFFI PRINT, as a possible “SYRIAN-BASED-CELL” ??

And should I, a former Cuban-Refugee, of Christian beliefs, and of the Roman Catholic faith, …and very, very proud to be an “American”, turn the other cheek, or look the other way while another attack on America is being planned, right in front of us ??

Reagan would have said: “Not on my watch”…and I would have to agree.

No religion has the right, to have the same rights as “any other decent and God-fearing religions”, here in America, if they were responsible for the training of 4 religious Islamic fanatics, to attack America with 4 aircrafts filled with innocent people, and cause so much bloodshed, tears, and a life-long hurt, in America’s hearts.

Not now, not 10 years ago,…not ten thousand light-years from now. Never !

See you Sept. 22; I will be in Orlando that weekend, 23rd and 24th Sept./2011, for the GOP “chats”.

Thanks, Gene. Manny Torres

Dpthunter
Dpthunter

Sounds like the author of this article is a disgruntled democrat! The nation of Islam despises everything that we Americans stand for. Say for instance, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly, and the Political Freedom to call someone out for what the really are. Go West!

hopmedic
hopmedic

I would love to see a Herman Cain/Allen West ticket for 2012. Let's see those tea party racists elect TWO black men to the white house!

Nasihah Adib Faruq
Nasihah Adib Faruq

THIS GUY WEST APPARENTLY DOES NOT KNOW ANYTHING REALLY ABOUT ISLAM AND HIS IGNORANCE SHALL KEEP HIM IN THE DARK FOREVER...

Offthepink
Offthepink

The quran clearly says take not christians and jews as true friends (pretend to befriend them until you are reinforced enough to arise and destroy them, after which you are free to break all contracts, legal and otherwise, with them), and to kill them as they are infidels, committing the highest crime of not worshipping Allah. It's all right there in their own book, yet they're trying to say we're misunderstanding what is written plainly. That's where the practice of "Taqiyya" comes into play: lying to infidels in order to advance the spread and obscure the true goal of Islam. Too bad that a lot of ex-muslims have escaped the religion (apostasy is punishable by death "He who turns his face away from Islam is to be killed") are spilling the beans, which is why Islam has such a harsh sentence for converting: they might warn the rest of the world about the truth, and with enough warning, Islam can't gain a foothold in nations that are not muslim. Unfortunately, the UK and America have accepted far too many to expel without major problems once they feel the time is right to rise up and fight their host countries in an attempt to overthrow their governments and begin their worldwide caliphate, and their (self-justified) punishment of all infidels.

John Q
John Q

Alan West knew exactly who he was referring to when he said "you attacked us".

Nezar Hamze is a CAIR official. CAIR does not represent American Muslims. CAIR is an FBI identified front group created to support the fascist goals of HAMAS and the Muslim Brotherhood and to advance the cause of radical, violent Islam. When West said "you attacked us" West was talking straight up to a true-believing terrorism supporter from CAIR, who shares the same religious supremacist ideology of establishing the Caliphate that is/was held by the Jihadists who attacked the U.S. on 9/11/01.

Armed Infidel
Armed Infidel

Those who practice Islam are compelled to lie to non-believers. Taqqyia compels Muslims to lie to non-Muslims http://www.islam-watch.org/Pea...

The Sharia is meant to supplant the Constitution. If you believe otherwise, you are closing your eyes to the truth. Respect for the law of man (Constitution) over the law of God (Sharia) is equal to idolatry and punishable by death.

There are many who posted here commenting against Mr. West. If Sharia replaces our Constitution in our lifetimes, you, who comment against it, shall be killed. The same goes for Muslim apostates. Do not speak against Islam. Do not leave Islam. http://www.militantislammonito.... Count your blessings that you still have freedom to speak your minds.

Bill2reagan
Bill2reagan

Mr. West has more integrity in his little finger, than you do in your entire body! Keep going Mr. West. Fight the good fight against these America haters, both Muslim, and those in the liberal media!!!!

SMDrPepper
SMDrPepper

West is just one more example of why this country is rapidly becoming the fodder for comedians. He is a joke.He says he is all for religious freedom, as long as you worship just like he does. West MUST have slept through all his history classes since he revises it so often to whatever crackpot flavor of the month he is squatting in.The man was up on charges, yet somehow was elected to Congress?And I thought my home town was backward. South Florida is rapidly becoming much worse than Missouri.

Conrad
Conrad

Are we to blame all Southerners for the KKK? Alll Jews for Julius & Ethel Rosenberg and Jonathan Pollard? All legal Latinos for the illegals? You know we need to stop with this foolish bigotry and prejudice, there are good & bad among all people there are Muslim Americans in the NBA, NFL, there are Muslims in all ranks and all branches of the Military, there are Muslim Congressmen, Muslim doctors, teachers, firefighters we are American we need to stop dividing ourselves lets not stoop to the level of Ahmedinajad, Chavez or the Taliban.

Sally32
Sally32

"even though Hamze is a Floridian, even though Hamze had not disrupted the gathering, and even though West has been elected to represent Hamze's interests in Washington. This is no way to treat a constituent in a democracy"

So if Rep. West had been confronted by a child molester, a mass murderer, a neo-Nazi, or a KKK member, who was also a Floridian, by your reasoning he should have represented the interests of that constituent also.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

Chris Logan:

Thanks for reading. Before you leap to defending Allen West's version of history, you should read this: http://blogs.browardpalmbeach....

I am not a defender of Islam. I think religion is a basically toxic influence on the world. If Christians in 21st century America are more well-behaved than their Muslim cousins on the other side of the world, it's not because their religion is superior; it's because Western societies have been so profoundly influenced by such godless heathens as Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson.

During the historical conflicts West so loves to cite, the Christians were not the moral superiors of the Muslims. They were all backward, violent, superstitious pre-moderns. If he really wants to build his case for Islam's inherent viciousness on the actions of the Ummayad in the 7th century, he must also then judge Christianity by the Inquisition. Which would be ridiculous.

Bottom line: Those of goodwill, who love freedom and respect the rights of others to self-determination, are the friends of America. To which Allen West would apparently like to add the addendum: "...unless they're Muslim. In which case, they're responsible for 9/11."

- BKT

KennyPowersSays
KennyPowersSays

West has taken preaching to the choir to a new level. He has this raging mantra that gets the Tea Pees all lathered up. Sort of like a cult. Hey maybe it is a cult and he is the captain on that ship of fools. The Army should have court martialed him and stuck the felon tag on his ranting ass, excluding him from holding public office or even voting. Thanks for nothing U S Army.

Conflicted
Conflicted

Wow Brandon, it looks like West has unleashed his flock of bigoted sheep on your blog. It's scary to think that West is able to whip these people into such a frenzy with his twisted and historically inaccurate view of Islam, but then again, understanding the finer points of history and religion would require some of these people to actually read about it themselves, instead of just parroting what comes out of the mouth of a proven hate-monger like West. Let's hope Team West's 15 minutes of fame are over in 2012.

Joseph L Cooke
Joseph L Cooke

Liberals are the problem. 2012. Solve the problem.

Christopher Logan
Christopher Logan

"Alleged" attacks? Does the author of this article know anything about Islamic history? Does the author know anything about CAIR? Maybe the author of this article would like to explain how a person is a bigot for not wanting to be dominated by Islamic Law. Apparently he is ignorant to the bigotry that stems from Islam. Brandon...ANYTIME you or anyone else wants to debate me Islam, just show up on my site. I doubt I will be hearing from you.....

http://loganswarning.com/2011/...

WWJD
WWJD

Allen West is supposedly a Christian yet continually violates every tenant of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Me thinks the only God he worships is the GOD OF WAR.

Pete Pepper
Pete Pepper

There ARE no troops in Ethiopia you simpleton.  Maybe UN Peacekeepers but no US troops.  And American Muslims are not fighting anyone.  I have many that are friends of mine and the most they are fighting for is to get a job.Stop trying to delude people with your blind hatred of things you know nothing about.If anyone is a traitor against this country, it would be you, West, and anyone else who decides this country is only free to those who fit your narrow minded view.  You people disgust anyone with a moral bone in their body.

Pete Pepper
Pete Pepper

Yet you and yours want to take all those freedoms away from anyone that isnt you. Once again, all the Muslims I know love this country and defend it. And I know a few an consider them good friends.All I will say is West, go away.

nanook5
nanook5

that's right kids...every muslim that didn't rape and kill people for the last 1300 years was part of a silent conspiracy.

if a christian theocracy was in charge i'd be killed too. and the people that advocate that have their own tv channels here.

nanook5
nanook5

muslim before proven innocent...truly the american way.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

...so you're saying a Muslim is the equivalent of a child molester, a mass murderer, a neo-Nazi, or a KKK member? If so, fine. And if Allen West agrees with you, fine. But at least acknowledge what you're doing: Radically re-defining what "religious freedom" means in the United States of America.

- BKT

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Cultural and moral relativism! You've tried to undermine Allen West ever since he announced he was running for Office.Your blog on the "true history of Islam" is full of falsehoods. Allen west was spot on. Furthermore, the way he pulled those dates off the top of his head -- something you would be unable to do -- shows he did study Islam. The man, a soldier, simply followed Sun Tzu's advice of "undertanding your enemy."I'm from France, so you are not going to fool THIS guy. I grew up with Muslims. I studied the Koran and the Hadith. I dated "Muslim" girls. I'm using quotes because they were only culturally "Muslim." They hated everything about their religion. They hated the hypocrisy of their dads, brothers, cousins, etc. who played "moderate" to the outside world; yet were hardliners in the confine of their own homes. They directed me to documents to study. It takes years to understand a culture. It certainly takes more than a couple biased "Middle Eastern Studies" classes in College to understand. It also takes more than a "Semester abroad"; time during which you likely will not deal with average people anyway.I went to school every day with Muslims, in an area where 80% of my classmates on average were Muslim; I played sports with Muslims; I shopped at Muslim stores; etc.Once again, Allen West is 100% correct. And it's not just him by the way. Courageous women who have lived the horrors of Islam such as Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Brigitte Gabriel will tell you the same things. But leftists in the U.S. would rather trash them, pouring salt on their already atrocious wounds. But that's what leftists do. Always on the wrong side of History. After all, you guys defended Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro and all the rest as they were killing millions.Islam is the worst ideology the world has ever seen; worse yet than National Socialism. I am grateful that modern-day Winston Churchills, such as Allen West, speak out for the rest of us.We prevailed over your Chamberlain ilk in the 30's/40's; we will do so again in the 21st century.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Miss you Robot. Time to change the oil and download some new lines.

nanook5
nanook5

none of you can explain what this has to do with west going after MUSLIM AMERICANS.

Christopher Logan
Christopher Logan

Are you implying that Jesus would support Islam, a religion of rape and slavery?

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

He does not violate any teachings of Christ. Christians are also asked to fight evil on this earth. May I remind you of the way Christ himself treated the merchants in the Temple? There is a huge difference between sin and evil.Being a good Christian implies choosing what's right. Yet, how can you choose what's right if you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge evil. And if you refuse to acknowledge evil, how are you supposed to fight it?What if Winston Churchill had turned a blind eye on the evil of the Third Reich. Speaking of which... you can open Mein Ka... and you will not find ANY references to any plans to exterminate the Jews.Also, the Koran contains twice as many anti-semitic references as Mein Kam..So, you can play games all you want, we will not be deceived by wolves in sheep's clothing.Finally, I am from Europe. I've seen Islam grow and change the old continent for the worse (look up rape statistics in Scandinavia: worse than third-world countries). I will fight that evil ideology (just like my grandpa fought national socialism) here in the U.S.

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Christ's message was 100% love, so I don't see how followers of his teachings could be hateful.

Your logic is flawed. Not every German who registered as a member of the National SOCIALIST party was a killer. Many of them registered because Hitler -- and you would know that if you'd studied history -- focused on PEACE and JOBS in his speeches in the 30's.

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Hey nanook5, if you don't like the American way, try and go exercise all of your "civil rights" in a Muslim country.

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

What? The guy went there intending to provoke West. What a bunch of crap. At least West did not tell him, "Elections have consequences", or "I won the elections."

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

Adamsjefferson:

You seem to have confused me with someone else. I have never defended Pol Pot or Stalin; they were religious extremists too, in their own ways (their religion being political rather than scriptural), and religious extremism is always an enemy. Moreover, I love Ayaan Hirsi Ali; I worked for the James Randi Educational Foundation for several years, and consider myself an ally of Ali, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and many other people whom our more devout Mohammedan brethren would love to see executed.

That said -- Muslims who profess the faith, but who also aspire to the Enlightenment ideals upon which the US was founded, must be considered allies in the free world's struggle against extremism and despotism. If we categorize such Muslims as enemies, as West does, what possible solution could there be? Please apply your mind to that problem. I think you will find that the only solution is genocide.

You are correct, of course, about the vileness of the Qur'an. It is vile. Is it more vile than the Bible? Sure. But that would make the Bible only the second most vile book ever written. Give the Old Testament a careful reading; see how quick the Hebrew God is to condone the destruction of every man, woman, and child among the Amalekites. The Old Testament is full of God-sanctioned war, genocide, and child-rape. (The standard response to this criticism is that the New Testament is *much* more moral. True, Jesus didn't endorse genocide. He doesn't appear to have rebuked it, either.) It's an awful book. If you've read it and still use it as a moral guide, you are reprehensible; if you haven't read it and claim to use it as a moral guide, you are irresponsible. There really are no other options.

Rather than contrasting Islam with some other, marginally less odious monotheism, you may wish to contrast it with something genuinely oppositional. The Enlightenment, say. The Enlightenment is the West's philosophical and political backbone, and its ideals are truly anathema to the jihadists. From Allen West's recorded statements, it would seem they are also anathema to him. He wishes, for example, to base the USA's Israel policy on Old Testament texts. Can you not see why that's a bad idea?

I've said this before, but it might bear repeating: My objection to Allen West isn't that he's too hard on jihadists. My objection is that he and the jihadists have much too much in common.

- BKT

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

I will add that being a staunch supporter of Israel, aside from studying the Koran and the Hadith (and multiple other documents on Islam), I've also read Mein Kam.. to understand that hatred for the Jewish people.And to me the verdict is unequivocal: Mein Kam.. is like a stroll in the park compared to the Koran and the Hadith.By the way, a Nazi could also have asked Allen West to show him where Mein Kam.. talked about exterminating the Jews. Allen West could not have answered that. It's nowhere to be found in the book. An ideology is much more than what one book says. Yet, the nazis did put in place a systematic way to exterminate the Jews.

Virgil Starkwell
Virgil Starkwell

Slavery? Christians never engaged in slavery, right? Christians were still lynching blacks 60 years ago in this country. Christians were putting Jews in ovens only 70 years ago.

Hey Einstein, Christians slaughtered millions of Indians throughout North America for decades.

They referred to it as their manifest destiny.

Jesus was a liberal. There is nothing "Jesus" about any of you people.

nanook5
nanook5

you think jesus loved war? wtf?!?

SMDrPepper
SMDrPepper

Actually, the west viewed the east with complete disdain. They started the Crusades for money and to get the out of work armies out of Europe. Yes, they mentioned the Muslims and that they were to "reclaim the holy lands" (by the way, when they got there, the natives did not want them there. But the Crusaders sacked Jerusalem anyway, killing everyone.) but in reality it was all about money. So much so that they sacked Constantinople setting it up for its fall when they were booted out, and pretty much raped and pillaged the entire region. And being a christian in the holy land was not insurance, since they were slaughtered as well.So Adamsjefferson, you fail your history. Watching Beck is NOT a history course.See what the Muslims were doing then was pretty much EXACTLY what the christians were doing in Europe. Your argument is one very large fail.I would suggest actually reading the full history of the Middle Ages, something that would NOT have happened if it was not for the christians taking over Rome.

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Hey SMDrPepper, here's a little history lesson for you. Below is what LED to the Crusades. Anyway, even without a History lesson, logic, if you were endowed with it, would tell you that for Christians to take something BACK (goal of the Crusades), that thing had to be TAKEN AWAY from them in the first place. Not to mention the fact that Christianity antedates Islam by about 600 years. Then Islam spread through violence. Anyway, here's the timeline. Oooops! Something your "Professors" forgot to mention in what they call "lectures"? Some of us keep studying every single day of our life, even after "college".

630 Two years before Muhammad's death of a fever, he launches the Tabuk Crusades, in which he led 30,000 jihadists against the Byzantine Christians. He had heard a report that a huge army had amassed to attack Arabia, but the report turned out to be a false rumor. The Byzantine army never materialized. He turned around and went home, but not before extracting 'agreements' from northern tribes. They could enjoy the 'privilege' of living under Islamic 'protection' (read: not be attacked by Islam), if they paid a tax (jizya).This tax sets the stage for Muhammad's and the later Caliphs' policies. If the attacked city or region did not want to convert to Islam, then they paid a jizya tax. If they converted, then they paid a zakat tax. Either way, money flowed back to the Islamic treasury in Arabia or to the local Muslim governor.632—634 Under the Caliphate of Abu Bakr the Muslim Crusaders reconquer and sometimes conquer for the first time the polytheists of Arabia. These Arab polytheists had to convert to Islam or die. They did not have the choice of remaining in their faith and paying a tax. Islam does not allow for religious freedom.633 The Muslim Crusaders, led by Khalid al—Walid, a superior but bloodthirsty military commander, whom Muhammad nicknamed the Sword of Allah for his ferocity in battle (Tabari, 8:158 / 1616—17), conquer the city of Ullays along the Euphrates River (in today's Iraq). Khalid captures and beheads so many that a nearby canal, into which the blood flowed, was called Blood Canal (Tabari 11:24 / 2034—35).634 At the Battle of Yarmuk in Syria the Muslim Crusaders defeat the Byzantines. Today Osama bin Laden draws inspiration from the defeat, and especially from an anecdote about Khalid al—Walid. An unnamed Muslim remarks: 'The Romans are so numerous and the Muslims so few.' To this Khalid retorts: 'How few are the Romans, and how many the Muslims! Armies become numerous only with victory and few only with defeat, not by the number of men. By God, I would love it . . . if the enemy were twice as many' (Tabari, 11:94 / 2095). Osama bin Ladin quotes Khalid and says that his fighters love death more than we in the West love life. This philosophy of death probably comes from a verse like Sura 2:96. Muhammad assesses the Jews: '[Prophet], you are sure to find them [the Jews] clinging to life more eagerly than any other people, even polytheists' (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur'an, Oxford UP, 2004; first insertion in brackets is Haleem's; the second mine).634—644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al—Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.635 Muslim Crusaders besiege and conquer of Damascus636 Muslim Crusaders defeat Byzantines decisively at Battle of Yarmuk.637 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq at the Battle of al—Qadisiyyah (some date it in 635 or 636)638 Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.638—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.639—642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.641 Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.643—707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.644 Caliph Umar is assassinated by a Persian prisoner of war; Uthman ibn Affan is elected third Caliph, who is regarded by many Muslims as gentler than Umar.644—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son—in—law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet's daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad's wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman's assassination. Ali's partisans win.657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali's supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.661—680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus673—678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad's grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad's death.705 Abd al—Malik restores Umayyad rule.710—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.711—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. This article recounts how Muslims today still grieve over their expulsion 700 years later. They seem to believe that the land belonged to them in the first place.719 Cordova, Spain, becomes seat of Arab governor732 The Muslim Crusaders stopped at the Battle of Poitiers; that is, Franks (France) halt Arab advance749 The Abbasids conquer Kufah and overthrow Umayyids756 Foundation of Umayyid amirate in Cordova, Spain, setting up an independent kingdom from Abbasids762 Foundation of Baghdad785 Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova789 Rise of Idrisid amirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; foundation of Fez; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.800 Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia807 Caliph Harun al—Rashid orders the destruction of non—Muslim prayer houses and of the church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem809 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country831 Muslim Crusaders capture Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy850 Caliph al—Matawakkil orders the destruction of non—Muslim houses of prayer855 Revolt of the Christians of Hims (Syria)837—901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France869—883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq909 Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia928—969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969)937 The Ikhshid, a particularly harsh Muslim ruler, writes to Emperor Romanus, boasting of his control over the holy places937 The Church of the Resurrection (known as Church of Holy Sepulcher in Latin West) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked960 Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam966 Anti—Christian riots in Jerusalem969 Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairoc. 970 Seljuks enter conquered Islamic territories from the East973 Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids1003 First persecutions by al—Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al—Hakim (see 937)1012 Beginning of al—Hakim's oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians1015 Earthquake in Palestine; the dome of the Dome of the Rock collapses1031 Collapse of Umayyid Caliphate and establishment of 15 minor independent dynasties throughout Muslim Andalus1048 Reconstruction of the Church of the Resurrection completed1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (aka Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.1055 Seljuk Prince Tughrul enters Baghdad, consolidation of the Seljuk Sultanate1055 Confiscation of property of Church of the Resurrection1071 Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia1071 Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine1073 Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders)1075 Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia1076 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana1085 Toledo is taken back by Christian armies1086 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca1090—1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands1094 Byzantine emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help against Seljuk invasions of his territory; Seljuks are Muslim Turkish family of eastern origins; see 9701095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099

SMDrPepper
SMDrPepper

So it was not christians behind the Crusades, which started this whole mess. What about the attempt of extinction of the Native Americans? Or the Inquisition? Salem Witch Hunts? Yeah,christians are the farthest from peaceful. More blood spilled on their hands than any other. Islam is just the flavor of the month right now.

nanook5
nanook5

so, let's try this again...i'll say, whatever...flamingos are purple. now just respond with something that isn't about defending nazis. just TRY.

Brandon K. Thorp
Brandon K. Thorp

You paint with a very broad brush, don't you? All Muslims are evil; all journalists are propagandists; anyone who's thrown a stone in the fight against despotism is akin to Churchill.

My argument isn't convoluted. It's simply this: Religious extremism is bad, and we oughtn't fight it with more religious extremism.

Christians are mostly nice people, even though they profess faith in a "holy" book that condones mass murder and pedophilia. Ditto with Muslims -- though the countries with the heaviest Muslim populations weren't as influenced by the godless heathens of the Enlightenment as those with Christian populations, and are therefore more brutal generally.

You can say all Muslims are the enemies of the free world, and akin to Nazis. In fact, you did say this below -- that the new Third Reich accounts for 25% of the world's population. I'll ask you again: What, then, shall we do with those people? Please answer, because I would like to understand your position. I see no solution but genocide -- or forced relocation and re-education, which would lead to genocide anyway.

Thanks in advance for your response,

- BKT

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

One more thing, you Jihadist collaborators in the media keep serving us the "Old Testament" line.Please note that Christians believe in Christ. Christians believe that Christ came to this earth to accomplish the law, meaning that anything antedating his birth was nullified. The Old Testament is seen by Christian as a HISTORY (with a lot of prophecies) leading up to the birth of Christ.We are not Mosesians, Leveticusians or what have you. We are Christians. Christ was love. For a Christian Christ is the greatest example.Mohamed was a barbarian. For a TRUE Muslim Mohamed is the greatest man that's ever walked the earth; the greatest example.That's why being a true Christian is so hard, for you have to fight your human nature constantly.I'm not a good one. My wife is a very good one. And nothing sickens me more than Christianophobics in the media and academia using her (and other true Christians') virtues and morals against her (and them) to pursue their agenda.

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Oh, you want to play the CAIR game: "Show me where in the Koran it says to kill Americans"?Well, where in Mein Kam.. does it say to slaughter Jews?

Of course, I did not say YOU specifically supported Stalin or Pol Pot. I said your ilk. You know that people just can't stand your profession, don't you. A huge majority has figured out that you "journalists" are nothing more than propagandists.

Anyway, glad to see it took you only 24 hours to cook up convoluted arguments to refute mine.

I'm not going to waste more time with you.

Oh, and by the way, your saying that Allen West as much in common with Jihadist is tantamount to saying that Churchill had much in common with Nazis.

It takes men like Churchill and West to protect the values of a society that allows people like you to get paid for something you call "work".

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Hey nanook5, there's nothing I can do for your IQ. I can't help you if you don't understand logic and historical facts.

Once again, Islam is worse than National Socialism. I have studied both ideologies to understand Jew hatred; and it just is worse. Period.

We should just ignore the fact that it's a hateful ideology under the pretense that it's called a "religion"?

Note that people like me, or Allen West, have never complained about ANY other religion. We know that Buddhism truly is a religion of peace for instance. Buddhists don't have to convince us they are peaceful. Actions speak louder than words.

By the way, every other religion has problems with Islam. Christians are persecuted by Muslims in the Middle East. Sikhs are persecuted by Muslims in India. Buddhists are persecuted by Muslims in Indonesia. Atheists are persecuted by Muslims in Europe.

Gays and Jews are fleeing the capitals of Europe.

The new Third Reich is on the rise. But this time around, we are not talking about a "Reich" of about 70 million people. We're talking 25% of the world's population.

nanook5
nanook5

that's just despicable. again WHAT DOES ANYTHING YOU SAY HAVE TO DO WITH MUSLIM AMERICANS

SMDrPepper
SMDrPepper

Actually, if Jesus ever existed (of which there is no proof aside from a book written centuries after he was dead), he would have been considered VERY liberal. In that time, dangerously so. Take care of those less fortunate than you, turn the other cheek, and judge not lest ye be judged. Yeah very liberal stuff.

Mr. E
Mr. E

Do not try to put Jesus into politics. Jesus was not a liberal. Jesus did not kill unborn babies or supports gay marriages.

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Jesus never taught to kill anyone. A Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ. Hence the atrocities you described in your post were not performed by Christians.

On the other hand, Mohamed taught HATE of infidels. And he led by example, slaughtering dozens of Jews with his own hand. And he is the greatest example any Muslim can follow. Hence, a good Muslim is one that follows the example of Mohamed and turns violent against the "infidel".

Also, here is a video of Franco-Senegalese anthropologist, economist and writer explaining that Muslims always were the largest traders of Black slaves:http://www.dailymotion.com/vid...

He's also written several books on the topic. It's in French, but I'm sure it's not a problem for an Obama drone. After your messiah did tell you guys you needed to speak more than one language.

And well... unlike your messiah I speak three languages fluently...

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Hey nanook5, your hatred of American values blind you. It's because of Chamberlains like you that millions of people were slaughtered in Europe in the late 30's and early 40's.

nanook5
nanook5

the story here is that allen west told man "you attacked us" because he was muslim. that is discrimination. i'm not even sure why you're ranting about national socialism (you're going WAY, WAAAAAY out of your way to defend them btw) or obsessing about jews...or stupid t-shirts, for that matter.

you say that all muslims, including ones born and raised in america, are evil. this is a lie rooted in bigotry. no one i have EVER spoken to in west's camp can either confront, dispute, or rationalize this.

Adamsjefferson
Adamsjefferson

Who talked about war. You truly are an imbecile, nanook5.I've reviewed your posts. Puerile "arguments" to say the least. Are you a "college" student being brainwashed on daddy's hard-earned capitalist money?Do you wear stupid T-shirts with moronic slogans because you crave attention?

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