Bay City Miracle: The School Board Shooting Video

• Faux Christy, Actually, neither people with guns nor the guns themselves kill people. It is the bullets that kill people.

• Oh my god, that was really terrible to watch. I can't believe this is happening in our schools. I hope we can find ways to address situations like this.

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• The woman that hit him with her purse was so brave.

• Hey ANON sweetie,........go fuck yourself!!!!

• @ 12/16/10 8:20am http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/broward/blog/2010/12/davie_rehires_ousted_administr.html Broward Politics Blog-Sun Sentinel 4/15/10 DAVIE REHIRES OUSTED ADMINISTRATOR

• @ 1:12pm: Have a drink already dry drunk and leave Billy D alone you primate. He is gay because your Almighty God created him in his image.

• Billy Delions says: I will pose the question again.....Is this country truly the greatest country in the world, a place where people feel comfortable enough about their personal safety to pursue their dreams,.....or is this country such a dangerous place to live that it is necessary to carry a weapon on your person at all times, because your life is under direct threat each and every moment of the day??? This is not a complicated question, a simple yes or no response will suffice. Great country or dangerous place. Posted On: Thursday, Dec. 16 2010 @ 9:53AM It is a great place and it can be dangerous too- like many other parts of the world- you big fag. Stop with your stupid attempt to make it a yes or no issue, when it was not. Go back to your boyfriend and stop bothering us in here.

• People don't buy cars to kill human beings with them.

• Vehicular deaths aren't premeditated, dipshit.

• I will pose the question again.....Is this country truly the greatest country in the world, a place where people feel comfortable enough about their personal safety to pursue their dreams,.....or is this country such a dangerous place to live that it is necessary to carry a weapon on your person at all times, because your life is under direct threat each and every moment of the day??? This is not a complicated question, a simple yes or no response will suffice. Great country or dangerous place.

• @ Virgil Once again you're dismissive of a valid point. Unfortunately its soley because you missed it. You site as your reason to limit the lawful use of gun ownership as the gun related deaths (what we don't know is how many of those involved illegal gun possession). If your aim is to reduce the loss of life? Vehicles cause far more deaths probably by a factor of 100 than guns. Why not advocate the restriction of lawful car ownership to only professional drivers or government officials? There is no constitutional right to drive a car. Lawful and responsible gun ownership has never caused an unlawful death.

• This shooting up government offices is just getting started. Local governments are tossing people out by the dozens and that ain't gonna stop anytime soon. When people loose everything, they got nothing to loose. The politicians that squandered all the tax revenue now will have to deal with that. Not a good time to be in politics. A gay friend of mine was beaten to death in a hate crime. He had a concealed weapons license but did not carry a gun. Had he had a gun as I told him too, things would have ended differently as he walked home that night from the Peter Pan Dinner and he would be alive today. Guns, everyone should have one!, except people who visit liberal web sites Like Media Matters.

• That yahoo wackjob was a fan of none other than Media Matters. Your point should be, Liberal whack job yahoos should not have access to guns. Also, try the OSHA site. Gun deaths are way near the bottom. Outlaw cigarettes first if you really care about people. Oh wait, then you won't get all that wonderful tax money. Never mind, keep smoking Virgil is full of shit!

• DF3: I'm sure you are a great guy, but your arguments are often replete with logical flaws, a lot of them. Cars kill more people than guns? And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You are now grasping at straws. Respectfully, this debate has been over since lad night. You cannot manufacture the facts, and the FACTS are there is a direct correlation between gun ownership and homicides. And America, because of the stubbornness of their conservative population-- on display here-- have four times more homicides than the rest of the industrialized world. We really do need conservatives to evolve, stop walking on your knuckles and join the industrialized/civilized world in the 21st century. Gays, Guns, God. My conservative friends: Please start walking upright. We are here to lend you a hand.

• Our man's on top of things this morning New Blog

• @ BillyD That is not what 9:36 said. Don't change the argument. He said (paraphrasing) that most people are too cowardly to attack without a firearm and therefore if no firearms less attacks. He specifically said people use guns as opposed to bare hands or other weapons because they are cowards. You agreed with his opinion. That opinion is wrong as evidenced by the fact there are more empty handed and weapons other than firearm attacks than firearm attacks. I'm not going to belabor the issue but changing the mindset is more important than restricting access. For example in a recent study for the first time more teens have smoked pot than tobacco cigarettes. Both are illegal for teens but the anti-smoking campaign is changing teens mindset about it. We can discuss all of the gun deaths ad nauseum but cars kill way more people every year.

• P.S. I wanted to add that hand guns should be registered on a yearly basis(like car registration with manditory insurance) so better tabs can be kept on where the guns are.

• Can't find the article. Can you please post the link? DAVIE REHIRES OUSTED ADMINISTRATOR Broward PoliticS By Scott Wyman December 15, 2010 04:19 PM Susannah Bryan reports: Town Administrator Gary Shimun fired his second-in-command Ken Cohen in June 2008 without offering a reason. The town rehired Cohen in late October. His new title: wastewater plant operator. Cohen was assistant town administrator from 2001 until his termination in mid-2008. At the time, he earned $140,506 a year. That�s a far cry from his current salary of $31,567. Cohen could not be reached despite a call to his work and home on Wednesday. In mid-2009, Cohen said he was considering running against Councilwoman Susan Starkey in the town�s March 2010 election, but decided against it. Cohen applied for one of four open positions in the town�s utilities department and was hired on Oct. 25, Human Resources Director Barbara Hitzemann wrote in an email. Shimun could not be reached for comment on Wednesday despite a call to his office and cell phone.

• DF3, we are not talking about assaults, the issue with guns is the ability to easily kill someone, not assault them!!!

• @ 9:36 and BillyD You're both wrong. More people are attacked with open hands and non firearm weapons than guns. That information is easy to find. Also I was right when I posted about the Alosi situation and how they were lined up. They were there on purpose. The Jets are now disavowing all knowledge of the practice. The fact is most teams do it and nothing happens like that, that the head coach doesn't know/authorize. He has watched every kick and punt return about 100 times. Rex Ryan is a funny character but if they sacrifice this guy he is a complete asshole.

• Good Morning All! I agree with Virgil 98%. The other 2% says if someone wants to own a gun they should be required to have a mental evaluation and have a certain amount of gun training with period updated training. All guns have to be registered and the punishment for owning an illegal firearm should be very severe. Too many people are murdered by lowlifes with guns. This shouldn't be and has to be stopped. Seasons Greetings and be safe out there!

• Good Morning. Well, now that we beat this gun control issue nearly to death, let's recap yesterday's action. The conservatives took an early lead with their unsupported rhetoric, something they specialize in. However, the progressives and normal thinking people made a comeback and ended up trouncing the conservatives with facts and data that proved unequivocally that there is a direct correlation between gun ownership rates and homicide rates. Simply put, the more gun ownership in a society leads to a higher homicide rate, and the U.S. has the highest homicide rate--by far-- of any civilized industrialized nation. Despite this trouncing, it is clear we will never move our country forward and enact reasonable gun control legislation which would strictly regulate who gets to own a gun because there are some people in this country that just don't get it. We have a name for these people. They are called "conservatives".

• Even Wade Lebron and Bosh are packin "HEAT" ...10 in a row ....New Coach???

• Billy, unowho takes pride in his stiff, violent pistol because it's the cock he never had. It's his manhood.

• THE LADY WITH THE BAG!!! KUDOS! AND I AGREE WITH LOCAL JOE!

• unowho, if it's not realistic to make the guns disappear, that's only because the NRA and the manufacturers caused them to proliferate. The proliferation is what makes the crime hard to overcome. It's sick. They keep pushing gun saturation, then say guns are needed because there are so many guns out there. Can't you see it's all about money for them? unowho, why do you always take the position of the uninformed, barely literate, non-book-reading, allergic-to-libraries, dirtbag, black-socks-and-flip-flop-wearing, non-tipping, French-sympathizing, deodorant-resistant, Canadian carpet baggin', sleazy-part-of-town warehouse manager?

• So, let me get this straight, more guns caused crime to go down in Orlando, but more guns also lead to the first murder in Celebration. Huh?!?!? How is that better or safer for us?

• Correction - I meant more than SEVEN times. Alaska has 20 deaths per capita and that number stuck in my mind. Thanks.

• 99% of the time guns are used as a detterant and protection .ie When sexual assault started rising in Orlando fl in 1986 police officers noticed women were arming themselves so they launched a firearms safety course for them, Over the next 12 months sexual assaults plumetted 88% burglaries 25% and not 1 of the 2500 women who took the course fired a gun in a confrontation. As our economy deteriorates more crimes are committed .I come from a country where we seldom locked our doors at night, but times are a changin and not for the better.If every weapon on the earth was destroyed of course there would be less violent crime ... .But that is not realistic.. Come on down to the real world Virgie... even in Disney Town they had there first killing EVER!!!

• http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000 So to summarize, Sarah Palin's state, Alaska, has more than 20 times the number of firearms deaths per capita than Barack Obama's state, Hawaii. But wasn't that pretty much a given anyway?

• For those of you that wish to live in a country where everyone carries a gun as a birth rite, give Afghanistan a try and let me know how that works out for ya. And you people wonder why so many in the world view us as supreme hypocrites.

• Well said, Billy D. Great points.

• @ 10:28 - Your stats are pretty lame. What is your point. So it doubled from 20ish to 40ish. That's still nothing in the grand scheme of things.

• The commentor at 9:36pm hit the nail right on the head. Last time I checked, a kid can't kill an adult through use of brute force (i.e with a knife), a gang member can't do a drive by with a hammer or hatchet, and an old crazy man can't overwhelm a school board meeting using the aforementioned weapons of choice. Guns make it way to easy for people, who otherwise would not be capable of inflicting harm on their own, to gain an unfair advantage over a victim who normally would be capable of neutralizing the situation. People who think they need guns for personal protection are cowards!!! Never have, never will. So what is it folks, are we the greatest country in the world, or does our country suck so bad that everyone needs to walk around packing heat just to feel safe?!?!?!?!? You can't have it both ways. And don't try to sell me that the reason we are the greatest country in the world is because of our right to pack heat, that is just total bullshit! And to "asshole!" from Texas, what if the guy had a BB gun????

• Woodrow: I can't tell if you are putting us on or mentally challenged. What fantasy world do you reside in where you think it is feasable and healthy for everyone over 21 to be "packing". Seriously man, you need help.

• Time to quit pussy-footing around. The best way to reduce violent in America? Let the government buy every citzen a semi-automatic handgun -- which each citizen would then be required to carry in a holster. All the bad guys would be gone in a matter of weeks once every American over 21 was "carrying."

• It's our constitutional right whether we exercise it or not. How about we take all our constitutional rights away? Like Free Speech.

• "This is 2010" THANK YOU, ANON. Yes, this is 2010. The year's not over so statistics aren't available yet. Let's check out the most recent statistics - 2009: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/england-and-wales TOTAL HOMICIDES IN BRITAIN (BY ANY MEANS) - 615 FIREARM HOMICIDES IN BRITAIN - 41 Yes, the residents of England and Wales are very proud of their low rates of homicide by guns and are thankful that guns were outlawed? How are you making out in America, mate?

• @ 10:09: Whether you like it or not, I am renaming you "The Smart Anonymous" , not to be confused with 99.99% of the remaining anonymous commenters. I thank the Lord that there is intelligent life out there. What I just don't get is why anyone would want to live in a society where anybody can get a gun. And I love when law enforcement officers are on the side of gun ownership for everyone. I guess they prefer to work in a dangerous society. Talk about a death wish.

• In 2008 The Independent reported that there were 42 gun-related deaths in Great Britain, a 20-year low.[40] However, in late 2009 The Telegraph reported that gun crime had doubled in the last 10 years, with an increase in both firearms offences and deaths. A government spokesman said this increase was a result of a change in reporting practices in 2001 and that gun crime had actually fallen since 2005. Chris Grayling, the Shadow Home Secretary (an opposition party spokesperson), attributed the rise to ineffective policing and an out-of-control gang culture.[

• Fuckin' magnets: how do THEY work???!

• facts are like silver bullets to you werewolf retards!

• This is 2010

• it was danged provocative to read. [IMG]http://www.sedonarapidweightloss.com/weightloss-diet/34/b/happy.gif[/IMG]

• Gun proliferation kills!

• In England and Wales, the number of homicides per year committed with firearms has remained between a range of 49 and 97 in the 8 years to 2006. NOT PER 100,000. TOTAL! In the US, in 2004 the police in the United States reported 9,326 gun homicides. Even if you use Britain's year with the highest number of gun deaths between 1998 and 2006 -- a total of 97 -- that is only 1% of the number of gun homicides in the US in 2006. ONE PERCENT!!!!!!!!! So keep up your uninformed NRA sponsored rhetoric, cowboys, but the TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE! GUN CONTROL SAVES LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• @9:57 For your Anonymous information I don't like bumper stickers. Knife and hammers are used as murder weapons and so are a lot of other objects that I will not say just for your anal ass to spew back. Go get a drink or switch to decaf. I don't see why you are so hung up on my opinion. I am will no longer waste my time replying to you.

• You have limited brain functionality because you stick with preconceived notions rather than facts. You WANT to believe the right-wing rhetoric about guns so you DO. You don't study statistics and believe in facts like I do. You are a sheep. A lemming.

• I love the classic argument, "If everybody had a gun". Hey primate@ 9:26pm: Everybody doesn't want to carry a gun jag off. Most of us want to live in a civilized society where we don't have to carry guns everywhere. You are a such a caveman. Would you have that drink already? Your friend told me you were much more bearable when you were a drunk. This story is about another nut with a gun. And as I proved, the U.S. has four times as many gun deaths as the rest of the civilized, industrialized world. And we also lead in the violent crime rate. You think it's easy being right so often? It's an incredible burden to carry around, almost like a curse.

• Here's a chart for you. Britain doesn't allow gun ownership. Look how low their rate of firearm deaths is compared to the USA's: http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm Your oversimplified fantasy bumper sticker slogans do not match reality. There hasn't been an onslaught of knife and hammer deaths since guns were outlawed. You are either very stupid or you are a liar.

• Because I don't agree with some Anonymous spouting their opinion on the internet I have limited brain functionality? Why do you even have to go there? I didn't say anything about this case specifically. You are the one making it complicated and insulting people. Now who has limited brain functionality?

• You don't agree because you have limited brain functionality. The school board killer, above, would not have walked in with a hammer and terrified everyone. Then he would not have killed himself with a hammer. Think about it. You're just wrong about this. Life isn't black and white.

• I don't agree with you. A killer is a killer no matter the method.

• "If everyone was allowed to carry a gun like in Texas, this asshole would have been dead before he reached for his gun!" >> Well THIS is fucking hilarious: Firearm Death Rate per 100,000 by State: All of the pro NRA, redneck gun-totin' red states rank very high in gun deaths. The blue, peace-loving, anti-gun states have low death rates. Of course. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000 It's simple, people - get rid of guns, get rid of gun deaths!

• Maybe we should all carry a tazer.

• What you guys don't understand is that gun crimes are committed by people that aren't otherwise "criminals" because the opportunity presents itself. Some people will use a gun if they have one but WILL NOT go out and try to get one if they are not legal.

• 9:12 - guns are different. If guns magically disappeared, you wouldn't see knife and hammer murders take the place of an equivalent number of gun murders. Guns allow you to maintain a safe distance when killing. Knives and hammers require intimate contact. Pussies use guns. Cowards. If guns were not available, the pussies would not grow balls and resort to up-close-and-personal weapons that require them to risk their lives and get their hands dirty. People like you always oversimplify things. THINK!

• Bottom line is if someone wants a gun they will get one legal or not.

• If everyone was allowed to carry a gun like in Texas, this asshole would have been dead before he reached for his gun!

• Virgil Starkwell says: @Deathfrog: If you read my original post, I was obviously talking about gun deaths, which happen to be violent. I started the pist by stating: Better Question: How did he gain access to a gun? What happened is the annonymous A hole interpreted the phrase violent crimes literally. And of course, you all went with it because you don't want to face the facts, which is that the U.S. allows too many of their citizens access to guns. How anyone with moderate brain activity cannot see something so obvious is beyond me. Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 15 2010 @ 5:23PM That's right asshole, I interpreted your words (violent crime) to mean what they mean (violent crime) and you were wrong. Then you come back with very old stats and change your entire argument. Your credibility is shot. You regularly talk out of your ass and expose yourself as a fool.

• And with knives and hammers and their hands and...

• Anonymous says: @Virgil 6:27 Excellent Post. Very well said. Posted On: Wednesday, Dec. 15 2010 @ 6:44PM Shut up Virgil

• Guns don't kill people, people kill people. With guns.

• As it has been said, guns don't kill people, people kill people. People still drank during prohibition, coke went out of style, it's prescription drugs with vodka and Red Bull and pot is just as popular as ever or you wouldn't see all the pot houses getting busted. Meth is all the rage but but they keep blowing themselves up. Some people are really in a vacuum.

• That gal was something. Looked just like aunt Esther whacking old Fred G Sanford. Guy who got 4 months for "Cock" reference from Judge Hurley says: "Helen Keller was a better shot than that Wacko.........just sayin." Guy who got 4 months for "Cock" reference from Judge Hurley, Judge Hurley sees that tasteless Helen Keller joke, your likely to get life without parole. Or maybe a one way trip to Starke. just sayin.

• "Duke's wife said Wednesday he was an excellent marksman and probably missed the five board members � sitting steps away � on purpose. One board member even crept up from behind and hit Duke with her purse � but he only called her a name and didn't shoot." "He didn't want anyone to get hurt but himself," Rebecca Duke said of the man she loved. She called him a "gentle giant." "The economy and the world just got the better of him," she said. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/15/clay-a-duke-school-board-gunman_n_797149.html

• Oh the weather outside is frightful...let it snow , let it snow, let it snow. Brrrr

• I hate to bring this up. Probably not the best timing. But, you know, if that crazed school board shooting guy had a lot less hair. And a much bigger gut hanging out over a pair of XXX-Large gray Walmart "athletic" gummy shorts. And had a personal ninja for back-up. He would have looked like the average, ordinary garden variety whacko "citizens to be heard" nutcase that inhabits so many southern Florida local government meetings. You just never know about these things. I'm just saying.

• Oyving......tease!!!

• Guys, no one is gonna give an anon-F'ing-ous a treasured holiday recipe. Or perhaps a killer new dry cured pastrami from scratch recipe. Or maybe a new method for cold smoking cheeses. It aint gonna happen.

• @7:27 I loved and miss those recipes

• @7:34 He killed himself with same gun

• DAVIE REHIRES OUSTED ADMINISTRATOR Broward PoliticS By Scott Wyman December 15, 2010 04:19 PM Susannah Bryan reports: Town Administrator Gary Shimun fired his second-in-command Ken Cohen in June 2008 without offering a reason. The town rehired Cohen in late October. His new title: wastewater plant operator. Cohen was assistant town administrator from 2001 until his termination in mid-2008. At the time, he earned $140,506 a year. That�s a far cry from his current salary of $31,567. Cohen could not be reached despite a call to his work and home on Wednesday. In mid-2009, Cohen said he was considering running against Councilwoman Susan Starkey in the town�s March 2010 election, but decided against it. Cohen applied for one of four open positions in the town�s utilities department and was hired on Oct. 25, Human Resources Director Barbara Hitzemann wrote in an email. Shimun could not be reached for comment on Wednesday despite a call to his office and cell phone.

• The shooter would not have missed had he not been firing blanks.

• Or recipes.

• DF3 its not real complicated and Virgil is pretty much right. A well armed populace would have a deterrent effect on a lot of crimes--who is gonna break into a car, or a house, or rob someone in a dark alley or rob a CStore clerk, if there is a significant chance the the crime victim will shoot their ass. However, a well armed populace also means what? A lot of per capita gun ownership. And some of those gun owners are going to get drunk, or high. Or crazy (see above). Or mad about the divorce they were just served with. Or the cancer diagnosis they just got. And use some of those readily accessible guns to shoot someone. Or a room-mate or family member etc will get to the gun and use it. Of the countries on Virgil's list, none come close to the per capita gun ownership rate that the US enjoys. So what we have here is Virgil and DF3 both being right. So everyone can go to bed now. Move along. Nothing to see here folks. Please get back to the meat of this blog--the Ritter--Klenet's golf cart.

• In an odd irony, Clay Dukes pops up during the LS video (AOL right side pop-up) with regards to his face book notes? Symbolism I guess and for the board, where was that concert (1976)?

• It's real cold here but the Heat is on. Go Heat!

• For twenty dollars you can get yourself one toooo....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWBoeY0AAec&NR=1&feature=fvwp Dump them all to the bottom of the sea.. RIP

• Topic change: Michael Vick says he wants to own a dog again. The coach who tripped the Dolphin player has now be suspended indefinitely. It came out today they puposely stood on the sidelines to create the wall.

• ...which may help explain why the Swiss have a low murder rate. With little spending on military (since they aren't aggressive toward other countries and don't fear an attack) there's plenty of money to make for a happy society - great municipal architecture, social programs, little poverty and hunger, clean cities, etc. Why get angry and murder others?

• I think we should all check in and buy a ticket (one way) to Europe for Virgil. You can find him at the computers at the library. Hey, Stuart resigned because his wife is about to be charged.

• @Virgil 6:27 Excellent Post. Very well said.

• I would gladly accept a policy of required gun ownership of all US citizens in return for a Swiss-like policy of permanent non-interventionism. No military action unless it is in the defense of the United States' home land. Period. We would have a strong, wealthy, healthy middle class in this country.

• @Retired Cop: The Swiss are more civilized in general? I don't doubt that there are many Americans who are responsible enough to own a firearm; that is undebatable. I have many friends who grew up with firearms and learned to respect them. I don't have a problem with them. What I am asking the responsible people to deal with is stricter regulation so that we can weed out all of the people who haven't earned the right to own a firearm. Comprehensive background checks A psychological profile, if there is cause Yearly updates Does that sound unreasonable? We don't do any of this in the U,S. If you can drag your torso to the gun store, you are walking out a few days later with a firearm. We cannot afford to do it this way any longer.

• Too cold, bro. Too cold.

• Virg---How do allow for the low murder rate with the Swiss, and the required ownership of the assualt weapon in their country?

• Judging by the number of words--I didn't actually read that crazy shit-- I would say that dog boy is JAD's evil twin. JAD of course is much more lucid.

• So I Googled this "Dog Boy" cat that posted his weird diatribe here a couple of times earlier (and in the past). His rants appear on a blog called "Smoking Mirrors" and he goes by the name of "Les Visible". On that blog, there's a link to "Visible's Home Page". There you'll find our Dog Boy Poet: an anti-fascist, Buddhist musician with a strange connection to the subject of Pulp's post: a link entitled "Become V for Vendetta", the inspiration behind the school board shooter above, which takes you to images about 9/11 being an inside job. Strange, huh?

• @Free thinker: Read the link I posted. I am not manipulating the stats. My understanding is when an international comparison is done, each country is not always up to date on their stats so sometimes they are a few years apart. What shocks me is that anyone is actually surprised by these numbers. I honestly thought this was common "household knowledge". Silly me for thinking that.

• Virgil - Why does your source use different years for each country's statistics? Any chance it's to use select figures to support the source's position? To Anon at 1:03 - nice job trying to avoid the issue and marginalize it. Don't respond to substance of the post, i.e. guns will still be easily available to those that want them, if banned. Let's have it your way - post the number of deaths attributable every year to drugs and alcohol compared to guns. Impaired drivers never kill anyone. Drugs never kill anyone.

• I omitted two words from that study in 2006. The U.S. ranks among the highest in "violent crime" deaths among industrialized nations. That is a 2006 study. If anyone can find a more recent study, I am all ears. I certainly am not rooting against our nation. I don't like that we are violent andI acknowledge that there are a myriad of reasons for our violent culture. HOWEVER, my simple point is that there is no denying that we allow too many people access to firearms, and we need to do a better job of regulating who gets to own a gun. And the data supports my thesis. I'm out for now.

• This is the most recent study I have found. It is from 2006. "The United States ranks among the highest In industrialized nations, and also in overall crime". http://www.nationmaster.com/article/Crime-Rates-Around-the-World Hey, I didn't say I would stay in South Beach forever. Don't worry. I am headed to the gym soon and everyone is free to resume the posting of rhetoric which is unsupported by data. Because after all, this is America and we are all free to talk out of our ass.

• There's not necessarily a correlation between gun ownership and the violent crime rate. If guns were better controlled we likely would have a lower gun death rate AND a low violent crime rate. The reality is we're a pretty civil society in general with too many gun nuts.

• The topic was "guns" so you can forget about "violent crime rate". It is not relevant.

• @ Virgil How do you reconcile the lower crime rate with the higher gun death rate though? That is an interesting statistic. Secondly you used the phrase "violent crime rate" which is an actual statistical term vs. Gun deaths. I think comparing gun deaths in Europe to the US is like comparing Breast Cancer rates in men and women though. I think the violent crime rate is a better determination of how safe a community is. I don't want to be shot, stabbed or bludgeoned.

• My only regret is that this crazed nut job didn't just shoot and kill these corrupt assholes before they could screw up Bay County like our Broward County... Just a thought

• @Deathfrog: If you read my original post, I was obviously talking about gun deaths, which happen to be violent. I started the pist by stating: Better Question: How did he gain access to a gun? What happened is the annonymous A hole interpreted the phrase violent crimes literally. And of course, you all went with it because you don't want to face the facts, which is that the U.S. allows too many of their citizens access to guns. How anyone with moderate brain activity cannot see something so obvious is beyond me.

• @ Virgil Not to get into this with you but the statistics you originally posted were violent crime rate, someone posted the violent crime rate where the US has a lower violent crime rate. You then used "firearm deaths" as your example. You're changing the question. I bet there are more stabbings and bludgeonings in Europe. Man is an Apex predator and will use what ever weapon available to achieve his goal. The statistics provided here today actually prove the theory that firearms lower violent crime. Because although firearm deaths are higher in the US the violent crime rate is lower.

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