Poker Rooms Bringing in More Money Than Dog Racing at Some Florida Tracks

• who cares...they're dogs!!!

• Mark Says, OK, I'm done talking to you Jennifer. Mark, don't let them get the last word in? I have been asking for their documentation so I can compare it with the states and they won't give it to me? I bet it doesn't match up? Steve

• Jen Krebs says: "All in the name of a buck" This should be Grey2k's slogan. "We'll say anything, all in the name of a buck" OK, I'm done talking to you Jennifer. I don't want to distract you and Carey Thiel and Christine Dorkchak from going all over the internet and talking about what's going on at greyhound racetracks that you have never in your lives been to. Live from their cushy offices in Massachusetts that you donaters paid for it's the 3 people who know more about greyhound racing than anybody on earth.

• Mark tries to distract from the topic at hand as usual. That topic is the cruel and inhumane sport of dog racing. The injuries and deaths while racing, the extensive confinement, the inadequate care, the feeding of raw 4-D meat, and the euthanasia of hundreds (a very conservative estimate) of healthy, adoptable dogs every year. All in the name of a buck, And indeed, in vain, as this antiquated so-called 'sport' is dying.

• Jennifer doesn't answer the question as usual. Jennifer did you have a Turkey for your family on Thanksgiving? Do you think that Turkey suffered when he got his head chopped off? Did you enjoy eating that animal? Of course you and Grey2K can't collect donations from the suffering of turkeys, chickens, pigs or cows so you don't care about those animals do you Jennifer? Ever see a cow get his throat slit and then turned upside down so his blood could drain out Jennifer? Pretty gruesome. The cow doesn't like it very much. Why do you then eat this animal Jennifer? I thought you cared about the suffering of animals?

• Ah, more distract-from-the-topic games from the pro-racing gallery. Let's see. Answer #1 - I'm a vegan. Mark's response - 'See, they're animal rights extremists that want to deprive the entire human race of the use of animals in any way!! Answer #2 - I like my filet mignon rare. Mark's response - 'See, they're a bunch of hypocrites!! They can eat meat, but we can't race greyhounds?!? Good try, Mark. So, Mark, how long has it been since a young, healthy greyhound has been killed because it was no longer profitable? How long has it been since a greyhound has been injured or killed during a race?

• Jennifer Krebs, How long has it been since you've eaten an animal?

• Jen States, Injury records from the state racing commissions is evidence. http://www.grey2kusa.org/racing/sheets.html Do you have the Arizona records included on those racing sheets? If not, then we know how accurate those sheets are. You take the state injury reports and change the type of injury to a more serious and glorfied event as proven in Arizona. No creditability here. Jen States, Milton McGregor referred to dog racing at VictoryLand as a loss leader - what he loses on the dogs is made up by his so-called bingo machines. You are out of touch on this one. Today they closed Victoryland due to a possibe raid by the Governor and Tyson. If your statement is true, why is Milton supporting racing startin on this Thursay. Becasue he understands unemployment and livelihood. Jen States, No matter the games the people in dog racing play to try and the lies they tell to justify, excuse, and cover up what goes on in dog racing, the general public knows the truth, and the industry is dying in good part because of it. The industry is dying due to the casino's offering instant return on betting (ie pull a handle or play a hand of poker.) Our form of entertainment is not what the public is betting, not because of cruelty to greyhounds. You need to state cruelty so you can keep your "PR" machine going of the high expenses absorbed by payroll and lobbying. Jen States, In Florida this year, several dog track owners supported a bill that would have terminated live racing requirements and still allow them to operate the other forms of gambling at their facilities. They are tired of losing money on dog racing. Did they win that Jen? The public understands who was there first. We have paid taxes for 50 years or more, the Indian's don't. Cyndi R States, The legislation that is included in the pari-mutuel license which states that an establishment that offers slots and other gambling must also hold a certain number of dog races per year is not only outdated, it makes no sense, especially not in an atmosphere where the public is making it clear they are no longer interested in dog racing. Do you understand that the casino's could not get a license in the state, so THEY CHOSE to use the pari-mutual license already in place and that saved them a lot of money and INSTANT dollars. Then all those dollars leave the state and go to other states where their head office is located. Doesn't even stay within the state to help the economy. But that's ok if you live in California etc etc etc. No impact on those people. So the bottom line is, If I have something you want, you pay. That's the American Way isn't it? But you put a different spin on it, ie cruelty of animals is why the public doesn't support greyhound racing and this requirement should be voted out. I could go on and on, but in the state of Mass. if we did the vote again, you would loose. The reason is, the people in the Western part of the state believed what was put in front of them on the ballot and the Eastern part of the state knew what racing was about and the true adoptions that was recorded at a very high number. (ie >90%) but we didn't campaign our case very good in the whole state of Mass. Our fault. Steve

• Jennifer Krebs, Do you EAT ANIMALS?

• The legislation that is included in the pari-mutuel license which states that an establishment that offers slots and other gambling must also hold a certain number of dog races per year is not only outdated, it makes no sense, especially not in an atmosphere where the public is making it clear they are no longer interested in dog racing. The requirement was obviously a sneaky attempt to keep dog racing going even when the public quit going to races. It is time to get rid of antiquated legislation that only helps one group and hurts others. The public is making it clear that they would rather spend their gambling dollars on any number of less cruel and exploitive entertainment venues. The public is no longer willing to support the cruelty of dog racing. It is high time that Florida lawmakers wake up and decide to keep up with what the voters want. The voters want a law that will remove this requirement and we want it sooner rather than later. We want injury reporting and statistics relating to each and every dog born, injured and killed on the tracks. We want a paper trail to follow each dog from birth until either death or rescue. Lawmakers... are you listening!!?? Furtermore, when the public is no longer interested in patronizing dog tracks, as is happening now, track owners should have the option of offering them what they DO want, and not be forced to shove old-fashioned, outdated options at them. The public finds dog racing distasteful and it is a dying industry. That much is clear. It's why the NGA and trainers and breeders are fighting so dirty and running scared. They know they are on the way out. There really IS no argument... let's just let the public decide. And to do that we will at least have to remove the requirement that races MUST be run even if no one is there to see them.

• No matter the games the people in dog racing play to try and the lies they tell to justify, excuse, and cover up what goes on in dog racing, the general public knows the truth, and the industry is dying in good part because of it. The purpose of Mr. Mooney's article was to show how several tracks make more money through poker than dog racing. Dog tracks have closed when they haven't had some other form of gambling to prop up the dog racing business. Dairyland is a perfect example. Milton McGregor referred to dog racing at VictoryLand as a loss leader - what he loses on the dogs is made up by his so-called bingo machines. In Florida this year, several dog track owners supported a bill that would have terminated live racing requirements and still allow them to operate the other forms of gambling at their facilities. They are tired of losing money on dog racing. People who go to gambling facilities at dog tracks are subsidizing the cruelty of dog racing even if they don't bet on the greyhounds.

• Your analogy is perfect, Kathy. We all have the ability to make a decision about an issue without personally experiencing it in some way. I don't have to see first hand a healthy greyhound being killed to know that I don't agree with it, and that the so-called 'sport' that is the reason for it shouldn't exist. Extensive confinement of racing greyhounds was something I had a problem with, long before I walked through a racing kennel and saw it for myself. My seeing it in person only served to solidify my opinion of how inhumane it is.

• GREY2K USA has given nothing but facts. Injury records from the state racing commissions is evidence. http://www.grey2kusa.org/racing/sheets.html Any person with the ability to read can see that these gentle dogs die while racing, and that they are euthanized for treatable injuries.

• Kathy Says, I also didn�t witness the Holocaust, I didn�t witness the Civil War nor the 30,000 to 40,000 people who died in car accidents last year but the reports are credible and manifold and I accept them as part of our reality. Those events are creditable. All the facts associated with them are documented and true. The facts you talk about are not documented except by G2K. So therefore, the facts are not creditable. Like I told "April", give me documented facts in writing and we can prove the facts. Are we not both concerned about animal welfare? I am!! Lets solve these documented problems if you can provide them to me. Steve Steve

• You are right Mark�I didn�t witness it but I also didn�t witness the Holocaust, I didn�t witness the Civil War nor the 30,000 to 40,000 people who died in car accidents last year but the reports are credible and manifold and I accept them as part of our reality.

• Kathy Pelton says: "I personally have not witnessed this" ------------------------------------ Wow, what a surprise. Than why tell the story? You're just like Grey2k. Make all these outlandish statements about greyhound racing but they and you have never witnessed anything in person. It's like that story about the dogs being fed meat that is unfit for humans. How many times do you think in the history of Greyhound Racing that somebody from Grey2K was in a kennel when the dogs were being fed? Those people are never in the kennels at any track. That story is a total fabrication. They have no evidence of that whatsoever. It's a story they throw out there to shock people. This is how Grey2K and people like Kathy Pelton operate. Continually talking about stuff that they have never witnessed in person.

• An interesting thing happened to me today. I have a GREY2K button on my purse and, while I was at a place of business, the person who was assisting me told me that she had been a vet tech several years ago. What really upset her was when racing greyhounds were brought into the animal hospital where she worked with a simple broken hock and were euthanized. These dogs were healthy but damaged and, I guess, not worth repairing. I received an e-mail from another vet tech, currently employed at an animal hospital, who is tired of having to look into the eyes of these racing greyhounds while they are euthanized once again over a simple broken bone. Granted, I personally have not witnessed this but I do not know why these individuals would be fabricating these incidents. Perhaps this is just another ugly side of the racing industry that is still going on

• April says: PETA does some things I don't agree with, but they have done a lot to expose the cruelty in lab's, puppy mill breeding, etc. What have you done?!? Well said, April. It seems that any time an animal welfare advocate speaks up about any issue involving animals, they are labaled 'whackos', 'terrorists', 'radical'. So tell me, all you pro racing people out there, since you loathe PeTA, HSUS, you must be in favor of the proliferation of puppy mills, crush videos, fur farming abuse of factory farmed animals---since the agencies who fight to squelch the abuse are on your s*** list.

• April, "Thanks Carey, Christine and everyone else to works to end dog racing and adopt out ex racers." Could you give us a list with the names of the dogs that Carey and Christine have adopted out? Thank you very much. Mike

• Jen, You are right...I don't have to prove anything. Your rhetorical responses to the questions that were asked is all the proof that myself, or anyone else that reads this discussion, would need to make a determination. One more thing Jen. I'd be really careful about posting that I am an abuser of greyhounds. I don't take that lightly and will not be accused of that again by you. The bottom line is that you made some statements about greyhound abuse on a farm in Florida. When you were asked to provide the name of the farm, you didn't and gave the reasons why. You provided no documentation or evidence of any kind to prove your accusations, so anyone following this discussion will be left not knowing who he or she should believe. That's a pretty good strategy for Grey2K USA to use and I can see why it has been successful to some degree. But, in the end, people reading this will come to a conclusion based on their common sense and their ability to reason. Thanks to your refusal to answer questions about the supposed abuses, I know what most of them will conclude.

• I love it when the unarmed come into a conversation with only the knowledge of what they are told by G2K?? Its like they went into a war with a "Water Pistol"?? April Says, Their efforts and their supporters' efforts have gotten dog racing outlawed in several states in the last five years alone. Name the states April?? Don't count Kansas, Arizona, New Hampshire and Wisconsin, as they closed due to money problems and not G2K. They would like to take credit, as that allows more funds to be donated. April Says, Those dogs are a disposable commodity to you! lf you TRULY cared about greyhounds, you'd want them to be a family pet with lots of love and attention, a good home. We have over a 90% adoption rate. We are not 100% yet, but we put forth a strong effort to achieve 100%. We will never get credit for that, as this leads me to my next question, April Says, Only 20% are adopted out; the rest are "euthanized That is a strong statement to say the least. Please show me the facts where you get those numbers and I will prove you wrong?? Take the challenge and not run your mouth off. April Says, Jen Krebs -- you are as usual, right on the money. Don't waste your time responding to these pro racing knuckleheads. That statement shows your true class (ie NO-CLASS). I would never call a person a idiot or a knucklehead. That is passing judgement and you the almighty don't have that right, as we were placed on earth my the almighty, not you. So you have no creditability?? Steve

• Jen Krebs -- you are as usual, right on the money. Don't waste your time responding to these pro racing knuckleheads. NO amount of justification of racing -- "middle class people who breed, train, blah, blah, blah" will ever make dog racing legitimate! Anyone who does ANYTHING that contributes to these dog's suffering is at fault. Isn't it funny how they always seem to justify their actions, as long as they're making a BUCK OFF IT! Who are the hypocrites?!?

• I think it's really sad to see that that there are so many ignorant and misinformed people, or even worse, LIARS posting trash on this website about Grey2kusa. Grey2kusa is a registered non profit and my husband and I have been supporters of their efforts since the late '90's. Christine and Carey are 100% legitimate and their primary mission is to get the laws changed (NO dog racing) and to educate the public about the cruelties of dog racing. To those who have criticized Carey and Christine for not doing "adoptions" (implying they must not really care), there are many things an animal rights advocate can and must do (focus!) or they'd get little accomplished, or little worth mentioning. Their efforts and their supporters' efforts have gotten dog racing outlawed in several states in the last five years alone. Face it, dog racing is a backwards, money losing, dying industry, and it needs to die a quicker death and be done with it. The Casino's will be the final nail in the coffin for the dog tracks, and that's fine with me. People choose to gamble their money away and suffer the consequences. The greyhounds have no choice! The more the public is informed, the less inclined they will be to go to the tracks to support animal cruelty. I guess that's what really scares all you greyhound breeders, track workers, track owners, etc. who care only about lining your pockets with $$$. Those dogs are a disposable commodity to you! lf you TRULY cared about greyhounds, you'd want them to be a family pet with lots of love and attention, a good home, well fed -- not locked up in a cage 18-22 hours a day, fed USDA rejected meat unfit for human consumption, pretty much ignored, and then "gotten rid of" after they're no longer "useful" for dog racing. Only 20% are adopted out; the rest are "euthanized". Breeders breed for profit! Save the argument that they love the breed so much, etc. Not buying it. And lastly, to all the idiotic people posting their comments implying that animal rights people are a bunch of liars, hypocrites, scammers, "PETA freaks", etc. -- I am about as staunchly conservative, GOP registered as you will find in any animal rights advocate. There are people in any group that do outlandish things, but to lump them all together is wrong. By the way, PETA does some things I don't agree with, but they have done a lot to expose the cruelty in lab's, puppy mill breeding, etc. What have you done?!? www.grey2kusa.org I encourage anyone who loves dogs to consider visiting their website and to make a donation to their efforts. Grey2k has always acted with integrity and professionalism and I expect they always will. Thanks Carey, Christine and everyone else to works to end dog racing and adopt out ex racers.

• Everyone involved in greyhound racing is abusing them, Mike. Yourself included. The owners of the farm were reported by the people who witnessed the conditions there. I wasn't on the farm. They told me about it after reporting it to Gary Guccione, and they received an irate call from the farm's owner, reaming them for reporting them. What could I possibly do, for them or for the dogs? It is an example I gave of how the dog racing industry protects its own - the people, not the dogs. The dogs are never protected. So you can 'derive conclusions' all day long, and it won't make any difference. You've proven nothing. Yes, back to closing dog tracks now. You can go back to your abusive hobby and pretending there isn't any blood on your hands.

• To Alan & Harry, I commend you on your excellant posts. I whole heartly agree. Steve

• A link to this blog should be copied and pasted under every article about greyhound racing on the internet. These Grey2K people were exposed as the lying, stealing, scamming, hypocrytes and PETA freaks that they are.

• Jen, You have given me the run around on this for a couple of days now and I can see that you are not going to answer the question. Fair enough. That tells me all I need to know about what kind of person you are as well, and your opinions mean nothing to me either. If you were really sincere about helping greyhounds, you would not hesitate to name the people that you claim were abusing them. So, the only conclusions I can derive from your responses are that either you are not telling the truth, or you really don't care about the greyhounds. I guess I'll leave on that point and let you get back to closing dog tracks lol. Have a greyt day. Mike

• Mike, I realize you think I have STUPID stamped on my forehead, but here's a news flash. I don't. Do you really think I would post the names of greyhound farm owners so that they can attempt to sue me for defamation? Do you really think you could call Gary Guccione and he would actually tell you the truth of how he tipped off the farm owners about the rescue who reported them? Do you really think I'd put greyhounds in jeopardy, by causing problems for the rescue group that attempted to do the right thing and got burned for it? No, Mike, I won't do any of that. You can come on here and call me a liar and tell people you have proof of it, which you do not. I know what I know, and I don't give a rat's rear-end what you think. You are involved in a business based on animal cruelty. That tells me all I need to know about what kind of person you are, and your opinions mean absolutely nothing to me. I'm going to keep working on closing dog tracks now. Exploit those greyhounds as long as you can - squeeze 'em for every last drop. Because it will be over soon. Thank goodness for the dogs.

• Well there you have it folks. For anyone that didn't think Jen was telling a lie about it...here's your sign lol. I hope everyone can see through the facade that Grey2K is portraying, and this discussion is just one example of what they do. I guess Alan put it into words better than I did when he said,"spreading unsubstantiated lies and part-truths about the industry". Go stuff it??? LOL!!! That's quite a response Jen. I'm sure anyone reading this can tell who has gotten their feathers ruffled after being caught in a lie. The defense rests your honor.

• I can and I won't, Mike. You'll call the farm?? LOL - so did Gary Guccione. Go stuff it.

• Note to Carey Theil; some of us in the Greyhound Racing industry CAN actually remember the summer of 1999, when you were closely aligned with Greta Marsh ,a well-known proponent of PETA; and you should also remember the featured debate held on radio station WMNB,NORTH ADAMS,MASS., IN WHICH YOU TOOK PART !! NOW ,WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN ABOUT YOUR NOT HAVING ANY ASSOCIATION WITH PETA??? MAYBE YOU'D LIKE A TRANSCRIPT OF THAT PUBLIC DEBATE, DURING WHICH YOU STATED THAT YOU HAD NEVER EVEN BEEN TO RAYNHAM DOG TRACK'S KENNEL COMPOUND, BUT KNEW OF THE ABUSES GOING ON THERE! I KNOW you are a liar , and hope that others can also see through your veil of lies and deceit, TO GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER;you and your wife, Christine have made a sieable amount of money as lobbyists against greyhound racing since 1999, spreading unsubstantiated lies and part-truths about the industry as it stands today in these deplorable economic times. GOD has a place for people like you.

• Sorry...that was a post from me. I forgot to list my name in the title.

• Mike Tice says: QUOTE: "Sure you could Jen...sure you could...when pigs fly. I'd like to know because I say you are telling lies...is that simple enough? Can you understand that?" YOUR REPLY: Jen Krebs says: "Again, Mike, I ask you. Why do you want the name of the farm? That's a very simple question, and you avoided it completely. And you'll avoid it again." ------------------------------- Are you on drugs or mentally ill or something? I answered your question. I will call the farm myself if you will give the name. I say you are a liar. All you have to do to prove me wrong is give the name of the farm in Florida. Tell me who owns it and what city in Florida it is located. You can't do it can you Jen? I'm not sure why you think that you can make vague accusations and not expect to be questioned about the validity of the accusations. If it is a fact, then you should have NO problem providing the information. When I say vague, this is what I'm talking about. --------------------------------------- QUOTE: Jen Krebs says: "Some in greyhound rescue in Florida visited a greyhound breeding farm, and witnessed horrible neglect and terrible suffering of some brood mothers and a young, ill dog. Someone from the rescue e-mailed Gary Guccione of the National Greyhound Association. They never got a response. But a few days later, the farm's owner called the person at the rescue and screamed at them for reporting the conditions at the farm. THAT is how much the racing industry cares about these dogs" ---------------------------------- Some in greyhound rescue...a greyhound breeding farm...someone from the rescue...the farm's owner. Do you not see how vague that is? That could be made to fit any state, any city,any farm, anywhere. You have provided ZERO information and expect people to take it as the truth. Jen the problem is on your end, not mine. I want to know the name of the farm so I can call them and find out. I will call Gary Guccione as well and ask him about it if you give me a name. If you are right, I will come back here and APOLOGIZE to you for calling you a liar. I WILL eat my crow. So, the ball is in your court now Jen. Put up or shutup. Now I have answered your question(again)...what will you do?

• I agree with you,Tom, and I am looking forward to the day when dog racing no longer exists and people obtain greyhounds just like any other dog. I really don't believe that the demise of dog racing will cause the end of the greyhound breed.

• Actually, I've known a lot of people over the years who have horses, who are not farmers and who are not into racing. They just love horses the way many of us love dogs. Horse rescue is a growing entity. When I travel the major highway in my area of the state, I pass a number of farms and homesteads with horses. And actually, the horse-racing industry has had to admit its faults of late - doping the horses and sending them off to slaughter when they are no longer winning - similar issues to greyhound racing. We only see the top level of the industry on TV. The underbelly is ugly.

• Actually, knowing the level of caring people in the general public have for greyhounds, more breeders will take up breeding them - once dog racing is no longer around. It's a supply-and-demand issue. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people across the country who have dogs whose breeds are historically categorized as hunting dogs - With none of them ever used for hunting. Bassets were originally bred to be hunters, to be low to the ground for sniffing out animals. Now, I'd venture to say a vast majority of bassets are never used for hunting. Hopefully, when it comes to greyhounds, the better breeders will get involved - so that the current health issues with the dogs will be taken into consideration. But this is where we need better regulations on breeding overall - for all breeds. Greyhounds certainly - and without a doubt - don't need racing to survive - thankfully.

• It's like if you eliminated Horse Racing. Do you know how many millions of people would have ZERO interest in horses if it wasn't for Horse Racing? The number of people breeding horses would go down to almost nobody. Except for farmers, who else would be interested in horses? They are too expensive and too big to own as pets. There would be ZERO reason to breed them. Maybe as a show horse or a steeplechase horse, and how many people have interest in that? And PETA claims that is abuse also.

• Anonymous says: If tracks close because of "financial issues" those issues are generally a result in people not wanting to bet on greyhounds anymore. Perhaps some of the things Grey2K brings to light makes people not want to bet on greyhounds anymore. They would rather bet on poker now or slots. Whatever the reason, history will look back at dog racing and wonder why the hell people liked to hurt the most beautiful breed of dogs for money. ---------------------------------- Hilarious comment. Greyhound racing has done more for the Greyhound breed than anything on earth. How many people do you think would own a greyhound if there wasn't greyhound racing? The majority of people who own greyhounds and we're talking MILLIONS have gotten that dog from greyhound race tracks. And if Greyhound Racing was eliminated, which it won't be, there would be very few Greyhounds around. GREYHOUND RACING IS THE REASON THAT THESE DOGS ARE ALIVE ! Without Greyhound Racing, how many Greyhound breeders do you think there would be in this country? So many idiots commenting on this subject , who know absolutely nothing and believe everything that comes out of the mouth of these Radical, PETA groups like Grey2k.

• If tracks close because of "financial issues" those issues are generally a result in people not wanting to bet on greyhounds anymore. Perhaps some of the things Grey2K brings to light makes people not want to bet on greyhounds anymore. They would rather bet on poker now or slots. Whatever the reason, history will look back at dog racing and wonder why the hell people liked to hurt the most beautiful breed of dogs for money.

• Tom says.. "This is a key aid in socialization and is one of the primary reasons, I believe, that greyhounds make such great pets. It also aids them in overcoming the abuses of racing - as in the confinement, injuries and in too many cases neglect." Thanks for the backhanded compliment, lol. They couldnt be getting any kind of socialization from their handlers, right?

• Talked to some people at Birmingham and they don't have the Kennel compound security sign in books from 2008 and 2009. Nobody has heard of Jennifer Krebs. And since she won't give the name of the people she supposedly knows there (how convenient), that's all I can do. But let's just assume she actually was in a kennel at Birmingham. (Which I still doubt) That's one track out of how many? Carey Thiel was caught FLAT OUT LYING about being in a kennel at a race track in Florida. Dorkchak was NEVER in a kennel. These people DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN KENNELS AT RACETRACKS. And they make all kinds of outrageous claims that they know EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON. And they constantly claim that they were at tracks that they never went to and they claim GREY2K had something to do with that track closing so that the knuckleheads sending them money , KEEP SENDING IT. The bottom line for you people donating to Grey2k is that they are ripping you off. GREY2K had something to do with tracks closing in MASSACHUSETTS only. If tracks close in Florida it will be because of financial problems. Not because of any supposed pressure from these 3 delusional lying knuckleheads up in Massachusetts who call themselves Grey2k. Before you donate to them again, do some research on the internet and find out the real reasons that greyhound tracks have closed. Google Dairyland Greyhound Park, and Phoenix Greyhound Park, and Cloverleaf Greyhound track, and Corpus Christi greyhound track. Grey2k had nothing to do with it. They run a website and they comment on EVERY and I mean EVERY article about Greyhound Racing on the internet to make people believe that they are doing more than they are actually doing. It's a SCAM to get donations. And with that, I'm done with this article. I will not comment anymore.

• Chris, thanks for the link. This information is basically what I've seen previously - that greyhound puppies stay with their litter mates and in many cases with their moms longer than in some other cases. This is the only good thing I can say about dog racing, although it is inherently part of the system. The puppies have to stick around for their race training. Actually, all breeders should leave the puppies together for at least 10 to 12 weeks - and moms with them as long as possible. This is a key aid in socialization and is one of the primary reasons, I believe, that greyhounds make such great pets. It also aids them in overcoming the abuses of racing - as in the confinement, injuries and in too many cases neglect. Too many other breeders are selling puppies off at around 6 weeks of age. This should be a huge red flag for the people buying puppies. The lack of proper socialization is one of the major reasons people are dumping their dogs off at shelters across the country. I've seen it far too many times. So the shelters and rescues keep filling up - and the puppy millers (along with the greyhound racing racing industry's sad contributions) are some of the major players in this problem.

• Tom, there is a write-up on this at: http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/about/otf-for.html It fits others I have read as well. -Chris

• Again, Mike, I ask you. Why do you want the name of the farm? That's a very simple question, and you avoided it completely. And you'll avoid it again. You can come here and write whatever you think is going to make a difference to defend your little hobby. But it's not going to change reality. Let's say it together. DOG RACING IS A DYING INDUSTRY. The gig's up. People don't want to watch dogs race anymore. That's just another fact you can try to deny. And it won't make any difference.

• Question for the racing insiders - How long do greyhound puppies stay with their litter mates and moms?

• Another point I'd like to make is the loving nature of greyhounds once they are done with racing. G2k and anti-racing organizations will preach from the mountains what great pets greyhounds make. This is a true statement, but let me ask them this. How in the world did they become great pets? Could it be the love and attention they receive on the farm and kennels? Is the public to believe that an abused animal forgets everything from their past and all of a sudden becomes the loving couch potatoe it is? Greyhounds are good with people, babies, dogs and most are good with cats, however they were abused and trained to be killers. Could the misintpretation of shyness be confused with abuse? Once a greyhound is adopted and welcomed into a home, he's seeing and hearing things they havent seen on a farm or kennel: stairs, phone, TV, etc. My 1 year old son jumped when he heard a phone. Does that mean he's abused or he experienced something new in life?

• Even before Florida's new, expanded gambling laws took effect last month, Because of now a days so many gambling and hacking persons are too much. But absolute if we play correct without any gambling and hacking we can earn more money.

• Even before Florida's new, expanded gambling laws took effect last month, Because of now a days so many gambling and hacking persons are too much. But absolute if we play correct without any gambling and hacking we can earn more money.

• Sure you could Jen...sure you could...when pigs fly. I'd like to know because I say you are telling lies...is that simple enough? Can you understand that? I know the sky is blue, but you can't expect me to believe anything you say when you won't back it up by answering simple questions. Is that clear enough for you? I'm not defending my livelyhood as you put it. I have a job that pays very good and I earn enough money that I don't need any income from greyhounds to pay my bills. Ebro....LMAO....what do you really KNOW about Ebro? Please, please,please enlighten me. How many kennels do they have there? How many floors do they have at the track? Oh, this should be fun, what is the name of the adoption person there? YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS DO YOU? WOULD THAT BE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE??? Again, you throw out random comments and try to pass them off as truths as part of your propaganda without ANY FACTS! How can you possibly claim to know something about Ebro when you really don't know anything about it? I do know the truth about dog racing, and that is why I'm here setting the record straight. If all the public gets to see is the stuff you nutjobs put out, I could see why people would agree with you about greyhound racing. But as long as I'm around I'm going to call Christine,Carey, and yourself out when you are not telling the truth. Now you can put that in your pipe and smoke it.

• Mike, I could disclose the names of the owners of the farm, just as quickly and easily as I provided the dates I visited the kennel compound at Birmingham Race Course. Just as quickly and easily as Carey could say what Florida track he visited, what kennel and with whom. What does it matter? Why do you care to know? It doesn't make a whit of difference. Because the suffering at that farm mimics the suffering at many others. The inhumane conditions in one racing kennel can be found in another. I know what I've done, where I've been, what I've seen, and what I know. I could tell you the sky is blue, and you'd say I'm a liar. Of course you will, because you're defending your livelihood. And because you can't deny the truth - the injuries, the deaths, the confinement. Ebro is one of the bottom-rung tracks in Florida, and in the country. Yes, you certainly know the truth about what goes on in dog racing.

• Jen, I have nothing to hide from you or anyone else. That's why my name is on here...duh! I asked Carey a simple question based on a statement HE made himself on this very discussion. What do I get as a response from him? NOTHING....no reply....no answer. That seems a little strange doesn't it? He was well involved in the discussion until he was pressed for information about the statement he made about visiting a kennel recently at a Florida track. So where are you Carey? Care to give us an answer? Then I asked you about a statement you made Jen. I still have no answer from you either. Why is that Jen? It was a real easy question...which farm in Florida did the neglect take place at? I'm glad to see that Mr. Simpson has taken the time to read all of this and even he can see that Grey2K is not answering the questions posed here by different individuals. Thank you Mr. Simpson for adding your response. You might be the only person not involved on either side of this arguement, so please keep us updated on what you are getting from all of this. And, MRL Green Light is doing just fine Jen. Thank you for asking. I stated earlier that I knew all the kennel owners and the trainers at Ebro. That would infer to most people that I was involved with greyhound racing to some degree. Yet, you seemed surprised to find that out and acted like you had found some kind of secret info on me when you replied. Oh well, I guess you caught me...I am....TATER SALAD!!(Yeah, that is a Ron White quote).

• RIGHT ON, JEN

• Christine, Why are you so concerned as to who I am?? I can assure you we've never crossed paths. Jen- I'm asking for clarification as to cage v. crate because every Vet will recommend crate training a dog. Here's something from the Humane Society of the United States. ""Private room with a view. Ideal for traveling dogs or for those who just want a secure, quiet place to hang out at home." That's how your dog might describe his crate. It's his own personal den where he can find comfort and solitude while you know he's safe and secure�and not shredding your house while you're out running errands. Crating philosophy Crate training uses a dog's natural instincts as a den animal. A wild dog's den is his home, a place to sleep, hide from danger, and raise a family. The crate becomes your dog's den, an ideal spot to snooze or take refuge during a thunderstorm" http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/crate_training.html

• I`m a little curious. I find myself on no particular side of these statements made above by all of you. One thing seems to appear very obvious time and again and that is the fact that the 3 from grey2k simply seem to refuse to answer seemingly simple questions from everyone else. The only common sense answer would seem to be that they were not being truthful in their statements. I would have a hard time donating money to a group that i couldn`t trust. Be honest, answer these questions so we all can be more enlightened.

• You're absolutely right, Tom. But I have faith that the American people already know the truth. It just requires asking the question to get the answer. We got the answer in New England already. We've seen it in the Midwest. We'll see it in the remaining 7 racing states as the next few years pass. If Catalonia can do away with bull fighting - a longstanding, tradition in Spanish culture - then the U.S. will surely see the end of dog racing. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38444092/ns/world_news-europe/

• That's not changing the subject at all, Kathy. However, the racing supporters posting comments here won't answer your questions. They won't address the issues. They'll name-call, accuse, lie, and repeat. They cannot defend racing injuries and deaths. They cannot defend young, healthy dogs being killed. They can only defend their source of income, by playing the smoke and mirrors game, and turning defense to offense.

• Is that all you got Mike? Calling people liars with nothing to prove it? No defense for the hard, cold realities of dog racing? (How's that fact-finding mission at Birmingham going for you, Jim? Will you come forward and confirm the truth when you find it? Will you be man enough to admit it, and apologize?) Let's see, I google'd 'Mike Tice' and, lo and behold! You are a racing owner and/or greyhound breeder! What a surprise. www.thenightofstars.com/PDFS/NOSXXIII/NOSXXIIIProgramM.pdf boards.globalgreyhounds.com/uploads/.../post-4869-127040658846.ipb How's MRL Green Light doing? Chirp, chirp back at ya.

• Not to change the subject but I would like to address two issues that were discussed at the beginning of this tirade: . To quote Yvonne, �Injuries occur in fewer than one-half of one-percent of all starts.� I will take your word for it, Yvonne, but herein lays the problem�even if your figures are correct; the majority of us on the other side of the fence think that that is too many and not acceptable. We want the injuries and, occasion deaths (as you say) to stop. Although Brian stated earlier, �Dogs are hurt while at dog parks, beaches, etc.,� dogs running at a track are deliberately put in harm�s way for financial and entertainment reasons (although I question the present entertainment value). . To quote Wendy, ��and now are legally responsible for causing hundreds of Americans to lose their jobs.� I have heard this position many times by the racing industry and although it is sad to hear of anyone losing his or her job, jobs are lost in every profession because of changing times. You cannot stop this. If the public does not need, want or like what you have to offer, your days are numbered. We no longer have men delivering ice or milk. More recently, what happened to the Polaroid Land Camera?

• cricket...cricket....chirp....chirp. No answers yet??? Hmmmm.... what a surprise.

• Jen, It is about education and awareness. At one time, dog fighting was not generally looked down upon the way it is now. People became more educated to the horrors of dog fighting. Thankfully, the word is spreading on the topics of greyhound racing and puppy mills - which are in many ways related. I live in a state where dog racing was banned decades ago, but we can't go out with one or two of our greys without someone approaching us to talk about the horrors of dog racing. Ultimately, exploitation and cruelty are not hard to understand. Most people love animals and most people get it.

• So far Carey and Jen have proven to be liars. Carey claimed to have been in a kennel at a Florida track recently. When asked to name the kennel and track, Carey conveniently disappears from this discussion. Jen claims of neglect and suffering at a Florida farm. When asked to name the farm, she responds by ignoring the question and refuses to answer a simple question. Why? Because they are not telling the truth. Plain and simple. Grey2K took in $496,000 in 2008. Ask them what percentage of that went toward greyhound adoption since their primary goal is the well being of racing greyhounds. If you doubt what I'm saying just ask them yourself.

• Chris, you could get the same facts that are on the GREY2K USA site, if you choose to. You could submit pulic records requests to all of the racing states, just as our organization has, and look upon the same injury reports we have for yourself. You diminish the facts on our website to defend your stance on racing. If you had the hundreds of pages of injury records from several different states laying in front of you, you'd diminish them too. As Christine wrote, it is in vain to try to open your eyes, and the eyes of the others that have appeared in these comments, defending their livelihood. Dog racing is a dying industry, in part because it has lost in the court of public opinion. People don't want to see dogs run around a circle any more, and they don't want to support an industry that causes needless suffering to thousands of dogs each year. Every year, the American public does more and more in the legal system to protect animals. We've seen it in puppy mill legislation, factory farming legislation and dog fighting legislation. And thanks to GREY2K USA, we've seen it in dog racing legislation.

• And once again the only information pointed to is what is available on the G2K web site.

• Here's another term for the anonymous defenders of dog cruelty, who continue to beat the drum of a dying industry on this blog. Res ipsa loquitur: The thing speaks for itself. In this case, the "things" are the facts about dog racing. To learn more about dog racing, go to http://www.grey2kusa.org/racing/index.html and read the cited fact sheets. Cited means "sourced." Of particular interest will be a chart, courtesy of the Association of Racing Commissioners International, showing that between 2002 and 2007, the total amount gambled on greyhound racing declined by 42% nationwide. The declining amount is 93% since 1989 in the state of Florida, according to the Florida Division of Racing. I could go on, but I won't. I leave this debate to those who can't see the blood on their hands and the many others, on this blog and otherwise, who will try in vain to open their eyes. Christine A. Dorchak, Esq. President, GREY2K USA www.GREY2KUS.org

• Jen, Do you have any evidence to back up the farm accusation? If so, please share with the rest of us. Is there a reason you didn't name the farm? Do you have some pics of the horrible neglect and terrible suffering of these greyhounds? Do you have ANYTHING to back that up? The problem is that someone will stumble upon this months or years from now and actually believe that you are telling the truth. It is just to easy to make accusations without any proof. It plays upon the heart strings of all animal lovers, including myself, to think of all those bad people out there that you paint pictures of so vividly. The problem is that I know better and I'm challenging your claim. Will you answer my challenge or continue to ramble off your agenda?

• Jen, I wasn't there... I can't tell you that because I do not know the people involved. I know that the people I have met would have acted. I can tell you that if it was ever PROVEN that the track management knew about it and allowed it then everyone who made that decision should be held accountable - in court, if you had exact names and proof that tack management was involved (and it was recent enough) I would help you write letters. But again, I do not know these things and I doubt you do either because you would have posted that.<br> Again, I sometimes agree with your concerns on some things - and this is such an example, but I do not agree with the solution.<br> -Chris

• Jen, I wasn't there... I can't tell you that because I do not know the people involved. I know that the people I have met would have acted. I can tell you that if it was ever PROVEN that the track management knew about it and allowed it then everyone who made that decision should be held accountable - in court, if you had exact names and proof that tack management was involved (and it was recent enough) I would help you write letters. But again, I do not know these things and I doubt you do either because you would have posted that.<br> Again, I sometimes agree with your concerns on some things - and this is such an example, but I do not agree with the solution.<br> -Chris

• Chris, I didn't call you cold-hearted, I asked if you are, since you can seemingly dismiss the facts as unimportant. Yes, you've certainly been more respectful than some of your little friends here on this comment board. I do appreciate that. I most certainly care, as does every single person part of GREY2K USA. I've shed tears watching videos of dogs cartwheel to their deaths in pile ups on the track. I've cried watching them smash into the rail or get crushed by the lure arm. I've lost many, many hours of sleep over those dogs in Ard's racing kennel, and the ones loaded onto kill trucks and disappearing, and the ones falling into garbage bags after a track vet sticks a needle in their veins. The solution to the ending of suffering like that, is to end dog racing. If you can't agree with that, no, we certainly will never, ever agree.

• Chris, Do you honestly believe that no one at Pensacola knew what was going on in Billie Ard's racing kennel? Of course they did. People there had to know. Additionally, why didn't the track owner press charges against Ard when the county shelter failed to pursue it? And why didn't the racing owners of the dogs who suffered, and of the dogs that Billie Ard killed, press charges? Those are prime examples of the failure of the dog racing industry to police itself.

• <i>Christine Dorchak says: Wendy Hamilton, I wonder why you won't tell everyone about the injuries suffered by the poor dogs under your control? Just asking. Christine A. Dorchak, Esq. President, GREY2K USA www.GREY2KUSA.org</i> <br> Mrs. Dorchak, I wonder why Carey won't post the Track, Kennels, and the dates of his visits to the Florida tracks? He said he visited racing kennels in Florida recently, please ask him to post dates and locations so we can verify. <br>

• Jen Krebs says: <i>Chris, Are you truly ignorant of the laughingstock of a job the racing industry does 'policing' itself, sweeping cruelty under the rug and covering for its participants? Or are you just too cold-hearted to care?"</i> <br> What does the Escambia County Animal shelter have to do with an industry policing itself? I am confused? When does the NGA have anything to do with state regulations? Let's see the state alerted the animal shelter to the problem, the animal shelter refused to investigate. I'm confused, what racing group was involved here? Now, if you were to say, "We want to put a bill in place that would hold dog owners, owners, and trainers 100% accountable for in-humane abandonment of dogs in (or from) a racing kennel." I would agree with you. I will say that this is already part of the NGA membership agreement. BTW, I am not cold-hearted and anyone who really knows me understands that. I am really wondering why we can't have a single email conversation when anyone in G2K is asked to PROVE what they say, or to give facts not on the G2K web site, it turns into name calling. You will notice that on any of my posts I have never called you or anyone with G2K a name. I respectfully disagree with you, call you on facts, but I have never suggested you are to cold-hearted to care, I have never called anyone an idiot, and I have never belittled anyone. See, I actually think that you especially do care about the dogs. I just disagree with you on the ultimate solution. -Chris

• Wendy Hamilton, I wonder why you won't tell everyone about the injuries suffered by the poor dogs under your control? Just asking. Christine A. Dorchak, Esq. President, GREY2K USA www.GREY2KUSA.org

• Chris, I just answered for you what type of organization the NGA is - starting from the top down. Many, many people in rescue have sent information to the NGA about suffering and neglect on farms and in racing kennels. The answer is not to look into it, but to tip off the person or persons being complained about. The Billie Ard story shows how the industry operates. How many people at that track in Pensacola KNEW that dogs were starving to death in her racing kennel? And they all kept their mouths shut. They didn't want to blow the whistle for fear of losing their own jobs. In the words of Abraham Lincoln: '"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out of men.' I can promise you, there are many, many cowards in the dog racing industry.

• Hi ECKY78, who are you? Just asking. Christine Dorchak, Esq. President, GREY2K USA www.GREY2KUSA.org

• Some in greyhound rescue in Florida visited a greyhound breeding farm, and witnessed horrible neglect and terrible suffering of some brood mothers and a young, ill dog. Someone from the rescue e-mailed Gary Guccione of the National Greyhound Association. They never got a response. But a few days later, the farm's owner called the person at the rescue and screamed at them for reporting the conditions at the farm. THAT is how much the racing industry cares about these dogs.

• And Jen, yes I do agree with you that anyone who allows a kennel to starve to death, or abandons a kennel should be prosecuted and jailed (or maybe even starved to death). That crosses the line for me, as well as a number of people in the industry. But she might have problems setting up a racing kennel in another state... NGA would never allow it, and dog owners would not send her their dogs knowing this. But once again you are putting an entire industry in the same hole that this person crawled out of. And that is just not right. I am not exaggerating, nor lying when I say that I have visited excellent kennels and met trainers and owners who would rather themselves do without than make their pups do without. I have said it to you before, please don't put the entire industry into one group. -Chris

• Chris, Are you truly ignorant of the laughingstock of a job the racing industry does 'policing' itself, sweeping cruelty under the rug and covering for its participants? Or are you just too cold-hearted to care?

• http://jenkrebs.blogspot.com/2010/04/florida-greyhound-associations.html 'Despite losing her license, Billie Ard will not face any criminal charges because Escambia County Animal Control elected not to investigate the matter, even though the state alerted them to the problem.' Is THAT how the state regulates dog racing? Is THAT how dog racing regulates itself?? It THAT how much the dog racing industry cares for racing greyhounds??? Yes, indeed, facts are stubborn things.

• http://jenkrebs.blogspot.com/2010/04/questions-about-billie-ard-and-her.html

• And we still have no answers to the direct questions asked.

• Chris says: Jen or Carey, ECK78 says: Here's a question for GREY2K. If you witnessed such harsh treatment and cruelty, why didnt you report it to the state, the track, the authorities or the NGA? These tracks are regulated by the state. Do you think the state would allow illegal activity without acting on it swiftly? Really, Chris and ECK78? Is that what happened to Billie Ard in Pensacola, who allowed her entire racing kennel of dogs to slowly starve when she ran out of money? 23 - TWENTY-THREE - greyhounds were KILLED because they were so far gone, after starving nearly to death, for weeks. What happened to Billie Ard? Do you know? Here's the answer. She lost her license allowing her to have a racing kennel in Florida. That's it. No criminal charges. And she can set up shop in another racing state. http://jenkrebs.blogspot.com/2010/04/horrible-neglect-and-suffering-at.html

• Chris, if you lived in a metal mesh box for 20 hours a day, would you call it a cage, or a crate? And do you think it really matters to the dogs who spend years of their lives incarcerated in them? Dog racing supporters have the same issue with the use of the word 'rescue' - they prefer 'adoption'. It's all just smoke and mirrors to distract from the harsh realities of racing greyhounds' lives. Call it what you will - the truth remains the same.

• I guess Carey just disappeared. Well, I guess that would be alot easier than looking like a fool for not being able to answer about which track and kennel in Florida he visited recently. We are still waiting.

• Christine, I like the way you answer a question with a question lol. You guys(Grey2K) have the general public fooled and all of us that support greyhound racing know it as well as you do. You caught the industry with a sucker punch in Massachusetts and did stop racing there, but that will not happen again. You can count on that. I know you think otherwise, but you are sadly mistaken. Also, I find it amusing that Jen Krebs works for free as VP for this organization lol. Carey and Christine are even better salesman than I gave them credit for LMAO. This entire discussion has been filled with so much hot air by Grey2K that they should be giving free balloon rides by now.

• Who I am has no relevance to the discussion. I did not attack you and asked fairly simple questions that you and your supporters have ignored.

• Dorkchak if the records are public then why are you asking? You will just fabricate new ones to suit your purposes anyway. I'm sure you know that inflating the numbers makes the little old ladies hearts bleed. Keep up the great work extorting our aged Americans. While you are at it, keep working to put more Americans out of work so you can pay higher taxes for our new welfare state!

• Hey ECK78 who are you?

• Christine Dorchak says: Over 24 hours ago, Wendy Hamilton was asked how many dogs were injured in her kennel. What is the answer to that question? How many questions have you been asked the last 24 hours? We really have selective memory.

• As long as greyhound racing continues, greyhounds will be hurt. State records demonstrate this. Injury records are public documents which can be obtained from respective racing agencies in the reporting states. Requests can also be made to the dog tracks themselves of course. Samples of these records appear on our web site with citation. Over 24 hours ago, Wendy Hamilton was asked how many dogs were injured in her kennel. What is the answer to that question? Christine A. Dorchak, Esq. President, GREY2K USA www.GREY2KUSA.org

• Jen, Carey or Christine ... They can't answer. Because they are all liars. That is the cornerstone of their business. They lie in order to bilk people out of their hard-earned dollars.

• Jen or Carey,<br> <i>ECK78 says: Here's a question for GREY2K. If you witnessed such harsh treatment and cruelty, why didnt you report it to the state, the track, the authorities or the NGA? These tracks are regulated by the state. Do you think the state would allow illegal activity without acting on it swiftly? You keep taking about cages, but not one G2K supporter has answered why they don't use the word crate? Did the HSUS approve the crates used in MA? Wouldnt it make more sense to turn over the individuals partaking in this activity than creating a non-profit organization? If a see a drunk driver, I don't drive home and donate money to MAAD. I call the police. Seems like a logical thought.</i><br><br> This is still an unanswered question? Care to answer?

• Christine Dorchak says: <i>"Facts are stubborn things." John Adams wrote this more than two centuries ago, and it is still true today. In honor of the great statesman, I again post a link to state-produced injury records, showing that thousands of dogs have been injured while racing (just so that someone could place a $2 bet on them and kennel operators could take their percentage). http://www.grey2kusa.org/racing/sheets.html </i><br> Christine, can you please post the links to these records or perhaps names and addresses of the state agencies where you got these records from that are NOT on the G2K web site? Basically I am asking for a path the information is coming from. The quote of John Adams that "Facts are stubborn things" is fitting for this request, as facts also need to be able to be verified. I would like to know how (and again - names, addresses, etc) of who to contact to verify these facts. I am sorry, but the g2k web site is not considered a reliable first party source. Thanks!

• In all fairness (and I can't believe I am saying this) I believe Jen has been to the tracks and has been involved in adoption halls. I also know she has adopted dogs and cares deeply for them. While we have never met and I don't agree with most of what she says but I think it is only fair to say that she has been involved in the adoptions side as well. Please don't knock her for that. But the question still remains for Carey: What kennel and track did you visit in Florida, and on what dates? Please share. You made a claim, and it was done in public so please do what Jen did and post dates, tracks, and kennels. How can anyone believe a word your saying unless you post that information? (These are your own words, remember?).

• Carey, Jerry asked about which track owners you got money from. Care to tell us we know there are some. One more thing, when you said you didn't work closely with PETA don't you consider picketing with them working closely? I do, maybe you don't. Dick

• Terry Says, You supporters of dog racing couldn't get a job mopping up at a peep show booth. Your right, I couldn't. But I retired after 22 years of Naval Submarine Service staring in the Viet Nam era, Retired a 2nd time from Operating a Nuclear Reactor at a commercial power plant for 18 years and now I build homes as a side job. So stuff it Terry. Steve

• You supporters of dog racing couldn't get a job mopping up at a peep show booth.

• Jen Krebs, Christine A. Dorchak, Esq. & Carey Theil Christine Says The broken legs and necks, fractured spines and other injuries found in these records were not "accidents." Accidents, by definition are unpredictable events. In the law, liability attaches when a person "knew or should have known" that the result of her/his actions would cause harm. Such is the case with dog racing. and Jen Krebs Says, You can no longer hide the cruelty and neglect that greyhounds suffer. Just more proof that the welfare of racing greyhounds is far from being the primary concern of people involved with dog racing. and Carey Theil Says, If you are smart, like Clifton Gray, you will get out of the industry and find something else to do with your life. Slack Says, Hey G2K, lets do this. You provide me the facts you have on injuries, as it is a public record in the state that you have them from except Florida. I will take your list and verify the results with the state racing offices, even though some might be closed, they have the records still, I hope. This list you have is very important to the public. It shows people we are the enemy in animal welfare, you say. Any incident that is not accurate or verfiable, you remove it from your PR machine. Any incident that happpened, I will acknowledge it and compare it to the total incidents of all dog racing. If it is abuse, I will approach the NGA to see if it was reported and we took action on the individual(s)involved. Both sides want the truth, so I am sure you will help us to identify those areas that have been neglected and reported. Because if it has been reported, we did something about it. Christine Says, Accidents, by definition are unpredictable events. In the law, liability attaches when a person "knew or should have known" that the result of her/his actions would cause harm. Such is the case with dog racing. Hey Christine, Driving a car, Horse racing, Nascar, Baseball, Football etc etc etc meets that criteria? How about a "Pool Party" at your estate? Accidents can happen anywhere and we acknowledge that. Dog racing meets that criteria also, but we acknowledge that accidents happen and those accidents get taken care of. Its the ones that you report we didn't take action that bothers me. Show me the injury reports from the tracks you have that we didn't take care of? Don't have to give me Arizona, as I have that report from your rep and Mr. Gray's investigation on the real facts. Funny how Carey remembers the name Clifton Gray. Cliff publically embarrassed the G2K rep on their facts reported to the local newspaper. I would remember his name if that happened to me. I want the same thing as you. Animal welfare is what we both want. I want to help you get accurate information. Steve

• What we are seeing with our newest rescued greyhound is a repeated theme. - Once they taste freedom and a life free from the confines and cruelty of racing, a light goes on inside them. During the period of adjustment, we are keeping him in an kennel for feeding and sleeping. But now that he sees that our other dogs - of all varieties by the way - get to roam around and sleep on the furniture, he wants out. He's gotten into bed with me on two mornings - and the look on his face seems to ask, "Is this a dream? Do we really get to live like this?" But because we humans domesticated dogs so long ago, this is THE way they should live. This is our sixth rescued greyhound over the last seven years and none of the previous five, after a short time, wanted anything to do with a crate.

• Well said Angela. It's like watching the Band continue to play while the Titanic sinks.

• You know, I have to laugh at the complete lack of logic Jim and others have in their comments. Obviously, the personal attacks and lies posted here by pro-racing individuals prove they are doing everything they can to preserve their inhumane industry. But, when GREY2K USA succeeds in ending dog racing, the organization will no longer exist. Every organization rescuing or working to help animals should hope for the day that their work is no longer necessary.

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