Two-Thirds of Florida Republican Voters Have Doubts About Obama's Citizenship

• @Ellen: kudos for doing the heavy lifting. I'm spread too thin ;).

• Gary ALSO said: �I was born in 1963. I have a photocopy of my original birth certificate which clearly lists the physician who delivered me and is signed by him.� Answer. Some states issue long-form birth certificates. Hawaii, like several other states, issues only the short form birth certificate. However, it is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on it were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii. Gary also said: "Barry" gave up whatever citizenship he had when he moved to Indonesia where he registered in school as "Barry Soetero", adopted by his step father. So, at best he would now be a naturalized citizen. Answer. He was not adopted by his step-father. There would have to be legal documents showing his adoption. There are none. In addition, the US State Department has said that Obama was never adopted. Also both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia. Gary also said: �But, if his mother registered him as having been born in Hawaii (which can be done simply by filling out paperwork up to one year after birth), the newspaper announcement would have been automatically posted.� Answer: There was no way, and is no way, to get a Hawaiian birth certificate that says on it �born in Hawaii� unless there is proof that the child was born in Hawaii. Obama�s says �born in Hawaii,� and the two officials have confirmed it. Also, there is this witness who recalls being told of his birth in Hawaii in 1961 ( http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:7lxgRu-fdYQJ:www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html). Also, his Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Hawaii. You also said: �There is actually a very simple solution to this problem. Barry should simply stop fighting this legally and turn over the documents that have been requested so many times. � Answer. That is both unnecessary and impossible. Unnecessary because the Certification of Live Birth is the OFFICIAL birth certificate, and the confirmation of the officials is good evidence of its accuracy. Impossible because Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate; it only sends out the Certification. That is what it sent to Obama, and that is what Obama posted and showed to both FactCheck and Politifact.

• Hey Gary; Sir you just got beatch'ed slapped. Thankfully, that too tight tinfoil hat of yours, wouldn't have likely come off... Beatch'ed slapped. And by a woman to boot.

• In response to Gary: 1. �Obama has fought over 30 lawsuits for his long form birth records, college records and the like. True or false? Back up you answer with fact.� Answer. There was not one single lawsuit against Obama just for documents or for the birth certificate. Virtually all of the lawsuits were to stop the election. After that, the lawsuits were to stop the Electoral College from voting, the Congress from Certifying the election or to stop the Inauguration. Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, the Certification of Live Birth, which is the only birth certificate that Hawaii currently issues. It no longer issues copies of the original birth certificate. AND, in Obamas� case the facts on the birth certificate were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii (who happen to be members of a Republican governor�s administration.) 2. �His mother renounced American citizenship when she expatriated herself and Barack to Indonesia, thus losing "natural born" citizenship status forever, because once natural born status has been revoked, it can never be reinstated. True or false? Back up your answer with fact. Answer: His mother did not renounce citizenship, which can only be done in writing before a US official. Neither she nor he lost Natural Born Citizen status. Indonesia has said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. 3. �His own grandmother recalls his birth in Kenya. True or false?� This is FALSE. The complete tape recording of the grandmother interview shows that she answered �America, Hawaii!!� after the question �Whereabouts was he born?� 4. �A year and a half ago the Democrats demanded that McCain and Tom Delay turn over their same records. THEY DID, and did so without fuss or bother. True or false?� THIS IS FALSE. And, McCain never turned over his birth certificate. The �birth certificate� that is online is a forgery. It says �Colon Hospital� where McCain has said that he was born in the family hospital at the Naval Base. McCain, like Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Ford, Nixon and JFK, and in fact all US presidents before Obama, did not show his birth certificate. Obama DID show his birth certificate, the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on it were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii. Also: �Obama has (must have had) a passport issued by a country other than the U.S. Long before he was President, Obama traveled to Pakistan during a period when travel to Pakistan was banned by the U.S. State Department. This is 100%, date and history cross-indexed. So what country does his passport say he�s from? We don�t know because he won�t allow his lawyers to disclose it.� Answer: TOTAL CRAP. Pakistan was not on any �no travel list� so any US citizen could go there using a US passport, and Obama did. He had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You also said: �On a side note, Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) must have committed perjury when he signed his Illinois Bar application, which claimed that he had never used any name other than Barack Obama, even though he went by several different names, including Barry Soetoro. � Answer: The question asked was whether he used any other name in practicing law. Also, it is not at all clear whether Obama used the name Soetoro himself. The form that you are referring to was filled in by a clerk and it was not signed. And you said: ��yet there he sits as president.� Answer, because he was elected 69 million to 59 million. He received 365 Electoral Votes (and not one single Elector changed his or her vote). He was confirmed unanimously by the US Congress, and he was sworn in by the Chief Justice of the United States.

• Gary, the newspapers don't run birth announcements when folks register foreign births for documentation purposes. And HI won't give you a BC based on the registration of a foreign birth. And Obama has turned over every document he could turn over. All he can ever produce (and all you could ever produce) is a BC issued by the state on your request. Obama produced the BC that the state of HI gave him.

• Gary, those things signed by the doctors are hospital birth certificates. great for family albums, but they aren't official birth certificates. a birth certificate is a certificate from the state's keeper of vital records certifying that it's records reflect that you were born there. you can get one anytime after the state gets the state-mandated paperwork from the hospital or the doctor. they are all 'original' certificates when they are issued to you. a natural born citzen doesn't need to be naturalized, and going to school elsewhere isn't a renunciation of US citizenship. I'm not the one spouting myths here. And how do you explain that Clinton, McCain, Palin, the tinfoil nut in CA, noone, has gotten anywhere with this loony theory?

• "Gary": I don't need to read any polls. I have my life experience and my interaction with conservative friends to rely on, which tells me that the overwhelmingy majority obtain their information from Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and other RightWing Liars. There are entire websites devoted to memorializing the daily flood of lies that is perpetuated by RightWing media. (Mediamatters.org) The majority of conservatives actually believe that Fox News represents the center, and all of the other corporate media are liberals. That belief alone should define all of them as lunatics. Robert Greenwald already exposed Fox years ago in his documentary Outfoxed. Fox is the propaganda arm of the RNC. They don't employ a single liberal to run a program. (Unless you count Geraldo's occasional appearance at 3 am.) Both CNN and MSNBC have conservatives with their own shows. So long as we still have millions of people believing the propaganda and drivel that is disseminated by Beck and company, the right will remain detached from reality. Millions of conservatives are not only an embarrassment to this nation. They are an embarrassment to humanity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQc_TH4iVV8

• Our understanding of authoritarian followers stems from the work of Dr Bob Altemeyer at the University of Manitoba in Canada, although his findings have been replicated and extended by researchers around the world. Altemeyer found that people high in authoritarianism display three tendencies: to submit to the people they see as legitimate authorities in society (authoritarian submission), to believe that everyone should follow the customs and traditions of society (conventionalism), and to be aggressive toward anyone defined as an opponent or transgressor by the authorities (authoritarian aggression). Not all conservatives are authoritarians, and authoritarianism is not exclusive to conservative politics. But in recent years the Republican Party has taken a direction that increasingly appeals to an authoritarian base. With their emphasis on a single set of dominant values, both neoconservatism and the religious right seem consistent with the way authoritarians view the world. Former Nixon lawyer John Dean's book, Conservatives Without Conscience, drew on Altemeyer's work to highlight the rise of authoritarian control in the Republican Party. Since the 2008 election, the Democratic Party has controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. How has the conservative movement retained and motivated the authoritarian followers in their base? By attacking not just the appropriateness of Obama's policies but the legitimacy of his government. At the furthest extreme has been the "birther" movement, which claims Obama was born in Kenya and is ineligible to be President. But as early as the Presidential campaign Obama has been targeted by accusations that imply his rise to power has been illegitimate, such as the attempts to paint him as "palling around with terrorists" and being aided by voter registration fraud, or that he cannot represent America's values because of his mixed heritage and the idea that he might be a Muslim. His approach to government and policy has been repeatedly likened to Hitler, Marxism, fascism, and almost any other ideology or regime that has a negative connotation in the United States. http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2859364.htm

• And, after all this "chortling" by Thomas Francis, the author of this web article, and "Virgil", the poll that you are excited about is bogus. "First, there�s no probability sample. It�s an Internet poll. Respondents participate by being offered points to buy gifts." http://blogs.standard.net/2010/03/bogus-poll-satisfies-some-peoples-need-to-call-republicans-morons/ So much for unbiased media and facts.

• Gary, I am reminded of Robert Heinlein who once wrote "<em>Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig</em>". I also don't bother trying to convince folks that dinosaurs are much older than 6,000 years, there's no complex process to turn water into wine, and snakes really don't have vocal chords... Good luck on your journey. Pack a Cliff bar and some spring water. You have a bump ride ahead. And make sure you tray is in the upright and locked position. Buh bye.

• Chaz, you made my point well. Like so many, you have no facts to refute me so you resort to a witty attempt at an insult.

• &#64;Gary I think you have made your tinfoil hat 2 sizes too small...

• "Judge", before you go calling people names, which is the typical style of those who have nothing to back up their facts, you should reconsider your information and not try to perpetuate myths. I was born in 1963. I have a photocopy of my original birth certificate which clearly lists the physician who delivered me and is signed by him. My daughter who was born in 1999 has a birth certificate listing the physician that delivered her and is signed by him. "Barry" gave up whatever citizenship he had when he moved to Indonesia where he registered in school as "Barry Soetero", adopted by his step father. So, at best he would now be a naturalized citizen. Illegal immigrants fake things all the time in order to get the benefits available in this country. I did not suggest that this was a grand conspiracy to have a birth announcement because he may one day want to run for the presidency. But, if his mother registered him as having been born in Hawaii (which can be done simply by filling out paperwork up to one year after birth), the newspaper announcement would have been automatically posted. There is actually a very simple solution to this problem. Barry should simply stop fighting this legally and turn over the documents that have been requested so many times. That would shut us up. Not some childish response as you did regarding the videotape comment.

• Gary: What you people on the Right don't seem to comprehend is that Barack Obama is a member of the same Establishment that has run this country for decades. In fact, after graduating for Columbia University, young Barack worked for a company in Manhattan called Business International Corporation, which was a an agency front company that gathered "economic intelligence". He was at the very least a non official cover (NOC) agent. Barack was a member of the company's financial services division where he wrote for two publications, "Financing Foreign Operations" and "Business International Monthly." Several years earlier, he did in fact travel to Pakistan. The 20-year-old Obama, who was known as "Barry Soetoro," traveled to Pakistan in 1981 and was hosted by the family of Muhammadmian Soomro, a Pakistani Sindhi who became acting President of Pakistan after the resignation of General Pervez Musharraf on August 18, 2008. You see Gary, Pakistan was the location of our base of operations in our effort to assist the Mujahadeen, who were fighting the Soviets. Although he played a small role, "Barry" played a role nonetheless, in this operation and is acknowledged for his efforts. Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, and his father, Barack Obama, Sr., met at the University of Hawaii in 1960 in a Russian-language class. At the time, the Agency and Britain's MI-6 were concerned about Soviet penetration of Kenya's independence movement. Kenya became independent of Britain in 1963. Mommy was an agency employee for years for USAID. After marrying Indonesian national Lolo Soetoro, Dunham moved with Barack Obama, Jr. to Indonesia in 1966. So Gary, don't worry your little head with these tangential issues and fantasies that you have concoted in your head. The President is a true patriot and is very well protected by the Harvard and Yale crowd. He is not a Muslim or a terrorist or some foreign agent. The reason they are opposing the lawsuits is to keep this issue alive politically, as there are great political benefits to painting the opposition as wingnuts. Comprende?

• My prayer for the 21st Century: "God save us all from the mushrooming shitty side of the bell curve."

• Obama cannot be the Anti-Christ. I am...

• It is scary indeed the things people will believe that just aren't so. Gary could be shown a videotape of Obama being born, with Pearl Harbor in the view out the hospital window, and he wouldn't be satisfied. He doesn't know what a long-form is, probably doesn't even know what a birth certificate is in the first place (like the folks who want to see the "original" with the doctor's name on it - BCs don't have doctors names on them, and there's no such thing as an "original" BC). His mother's citizenship is irrelevant if he was born in Hawaii. The conspiracy required to create a fake birth announcement at the time is absurd. and so on. most of his other facts are absurd as well. He's not a Muslim, and he supports gun rights. Two thirds of americans believe health reform will require them to change health plans. Private insurance is not affected at all. When two thirds of americans figure out that Republicans lied to them about health reform, the fur will fly. at least a third of americans are complete morons. another third are easily misled but eventually recover. the remaining third do their best to get it right, and manage to succeed two thirds of the time.

• Tom: It is so much worse than anyone can imagine. The latest Harris Poll shows that 24% of Republicans nationally believe that Barack Obama may be the anti-christ. Despite his long history of attending Reverand Wright's christian church, 57% of Repukes think Obama is a Muslim. 38% think he is doing "many" of the things Hitler did. 61% think Obama wants to take their right away to own guns. http://news.harrisinteractive.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=1963&ResLibraryID=37050&Category=1777 What the Harris Poll tells us is that the overwhelming majority of Republicans are undereducated and paranoid dolts who are merely regurgitating what they hear on RightWing radio and Fox News. As I've been trying to explain to my family and friends for years, the right in this country are fascists, plain and simple. This is a very dangerous movement that without question is a danger to our National Security. The fairness doctrine must be reinstituted so that these very small minds will be exposed to something other than hate talk. Once this occurs, their numbers will dwindle significantly. I enjoy your work Tom.

• Tom: It is so much worse than anyone can imagine. The latest Harris Poll shows that 24% of Republicans nationally believe that Barack Obama may be the anti-christ. Despite his long history of attending Reverand Wright's christian church, 57% of Repukes think Obama is a Muslim. 38% think he is doing "many" of the things Hitler did. 61% think Obama wants to take their right away to own guns. http://news.harrisinteractive.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=1963&ResLibraryID=37050&Category=1777 What the Harris Poll tells us is that the overwhelming majority of Republicans are undereducated and paranoid dolts who are merely regurgitating what they hear on RightWing radio and Fox News. As I've been trying to explain to my family and friends for years, the right in this country are fascists, plain and simple. This is a very dangerous movement that without question is a danger to our National Security. The fairness doctrine must be reinstituted so that these very small minds will be exposed to something other than hate talk. Once this occurs, their numbers will dwindle significantly. I enjoy your work Tom.

• This has not been "totally discredited" in any way. There are many outstanding questions. 1. Obama has fought over 30 lawsuits for his long form birth records, college records and the like. True or false? Back up you answer with fact. 2. His mother renounced American citizenship when she expatriated herself and Barack to Indonesia, thus losing "natural born" citizenship status forever, because once natural born status has been revoked, it can never be reinstated. True or false? Back up your answer with fact. 3. His own grandmother recalls his birth in Kenya. True or false? 4. A year and a half ago the Democrats demanded that McCain and Tom Delay turn over their same records. THEY DID, and did so without fuss or bother. True or false? The only rule of this game: the responses to the questions comprised of, �Nobody cares�, �He already showed his citizenship documents� (wrong, and nobody pays lawyers to fight something in court they have already conceded) and �He�s already the President, get over it� or the same don�t count as real answers Additionally: Obama has (must have had) a passport issued by a country other than the U.S. Long before he was President, Obama traveled to Pakistan during a period when travel to Pakistan was banned by the U.S. State Department. This is 100%, date and history cross-indexed. So what country does his passport say he�s from? We don�t know because he won�t allow his lawyers to disclose it. On a side note, Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) must have committed perjury when he signed his Illinois Bar application, which claimed that he had never used any name other than Barack Obama, even though he went by several different names, including Barry Soetoro. Fact. There is, essentially, no way around this one, yet there he sits as president.

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