For Allen West, "War Hero" Is in Eye of the Beholder

allenwest townhall.jpg
Flickr: AllenWest
West speaking at a recent health care town hall meeting.
Judging by the avalanche of campaign contributions and the enthusiastic backing of the national GOP, Allen West is no longer a prohibitive underdog in the campaign for the 22nd Congressional District that spans coastal Broward and Palm Beach.

This means that as the race gets closer to the finish line, West will face the kind of scrutiny that comes with being a true contender.

Even these days, at public appearances, he's routinely introduced to the audience as a "war hero" -- a curious description for a soldier who resigned rather than face the threat of being court-martialed for torturing an Iraqi prisoner.

West canceled a scheduled interview with Juice last week, and we haven't heard back from his campaign this week. In the meantime, let's take a closer look at the incident that ended West's military career.

As a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army, West commanded the 2nd Battalion of the 20th Field Regiment, based in the city of Taji, north of Baghdad.

According to a sworn statement West gave to military investigators, his unit received a tip on August 8, 2003, that insurgents were plotting to assassinate him. West was ordered by his superiors to alter his schedule and keep a low profile. About a week later, a convoy that would have contained West was attacked with an improvised explosive device and small arms fire. None of the soldiers were hurt, but the IED blast ripped a panel off of a Humvee.

West told investigators that about a week later, the original informant furnished names of three Iraqis he believed to be part of the assassination plot. One of them was Yehiya Kadoori Hamoodi, an Iraqi police officer with whom American soldiers thought they were on friendly terms.

On August 21, 2003, based on West's order, soldiers snatched Hamoodi from the police station, hauling him to a military detention center. You can read the transcript of Hamoodi's interview on page 10 of the investigative report posted in this Slate feature about questionable treatment of detainees by American soldiers.

Hamoodi claimed that his first interrogator, an Egyptian woman, told him that she'd kill him if he didn't talk, then kicked him in the leg. West says that when he arrived at the facility, his interrogators told him that Hamoodi "was not divulging any information. I was concerned for the impending safety of my soldiers and myself."

Arriving at the interrogation room, West approached Hamoodi, took out his gun, and chambered a round. He placed it in his lap with the gun barrel facing Hamoodi. "I had drawn out my pistol as a means of conveying a threat to him for the seriousness of wanting the information," West told investigators.

Hamoodi said that after West's arrival, "a soldier pulled his shirt over his head, and numerous others began to punch him in the chest." The beating bruised his ribs, said Hamoodi, but those bruises had healed in the month that passed before he met with investigators.

Said West: "Yes, there had been sporadic body punches and shoving to the individual, which I witnessed but did not allow to get too brutal."

Hamoodi still didn't give West or the soldiers the information they wanted, either because he wasn't part of the assassination plot or because he was being an uncooperative witness.

West ordered Hamoodi out of the interrogation room and took him outside the facility, where Hamoodi says West pointed to six soldiers who were standing in line with their weapons in hand. Through the Egyptian translator, West told Hamoodi: "If you don't talk, they will kill you."

When that didn't work, West admitted to pushing Hamoodi's head into a clearing barrel full of sand, which is typically used for clearing weapons. West then put his gun into the same barrel, near Hamoodi's head and fired.

"In my anger I do not know if I fired two shots in to the barrel or one into the air and another into the barrel," said West in his sworn statement.

West claimed that the tactic worked. "Mr. Hamoodi came forth with names, location, and method of attack." The attack was to occur near the Saba al Boor police station with rooftop snipers from Fallujah, after Hamoodi signaled to them what Humvee contained West.

Soldiers set up surveillance in hopes of catching those involved in the ambush, which was supposedly scheduled for the next day. But the attack didn't occur. A search of Hamoodi's home reportedly turned up no evidence of the plot.

Hamoodi, who was interviewed by the New York Times nine months after the interrogation, said that he was never involved in any assassination plot and that the information he gave was induced by fear of death.

Hamoodi was detained for 45 days, then released without having been charged. West told the Times, "It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi."

West informed his superior, a colonel, that he had fired his weapon to intimidate a detainee. But according to the Times, the case didn't spark an investigation until a sergeant with another battalion mentioned the interrogation in a letter of complaint about West's heavy-handed leadership style.

The investigation found probable cause that West violated two statutes of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which forbade threatening a prisoner and assaulting him. The army initially moved forward with a criminal prosecution of West, until a hearing officer dismissed the case, fining West $5,000. He resigned in spring 2004 with full benefits from his 22-year career and settled in Plantation.

By the time the article about him appeared in the Times on May 27, 2004, West had already become a martyr to conservatives unfazed by the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal, which broke the previous month. To that set, West was heroic for putting his soldiers' safety first.

But there were still no signs of the meteoric political rise to come. West told the newspaper that he'd turned down a lucrative offer to work with a private military contractor with work in Iraq, saying that he'd rather get a job teaching inner-city youth in a Broward County school and that his new goal was to work his way into a school administrator's role.

Instead, after a year teaching at Deerfield Beach High School, West headed back to a war zone. He took a job in Afghanistan, joining a private military contractor with a controversial past.

More about that in a post to come.

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71 comments
Linda Lemmons-Stalmer
Linda Lemmons-Stalmer

       ..This is the routine of Liberals following their rulebook...1. THEY WILL SHOW UP WITH THEIR TALKING POINTS. Making sure they'll have something that they feel will show their  opponents in a negative light, and make that the subject of the discussion. 2. THEY WILL DEMONIZE THEIR OPPONENT. Attempt to cover them with shame, the same way you would a 4 year old that touches his pee-pee. 3. IF THEY SEE SOMEONE DOING #2 ABOVE, THEY ARE INSTRUCTED TO SUPPORT THEM IMMEDIATELY. 4. THEY WILL ACCUSE THE OPPONENT OF SAYING SOMETHING HE DIDN’T. They will Attempt to define their opponent's  statements in a negative light. Interpret them that way and state it as fact that they did actually say it. NEVER asking  them…always TELLING them what their meaning was. 5. THEY WILL ALWAYS CLAIM THAT IT IS “OLD NEWS” AND NOT WORTHY OF DISCUSSION. This applies especially when the discussion turns to the misdeeds of Democrat Party Leadership. 6. THEY WILL QUOTE AN UNSOURCED NEWS ARTICLE. Always quoting the article selectively, or describing it in a general manner. 7. IF ASKED DIRECT QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NEWS THEY HAVE PROVIDED, THEY WILL RESPOND INDIRECTLY. ..Never actually answering the specifics of the question. 8. IF THEY ARE ASKED TO SOURCE THEIR NEWS ARTICLE, THEY ARE INSTRUCTED TO IGNORE THE QUESTION. 9. THEY WILL ACCUSE THE OPPONENT OF A MENTAL DEFECT OR LACK OF INTELLIGENCE. Personal attacks of this sort are especially useful as the target will almost always try to defend himself, thus changing the subject. 10. IF THEIR PARTY LEADERSHIP IS ATTACKED, THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO TURN THE TABLES BY INFERRING THAT SOMEONE IN YOUR PARTY IS JUST AS BAD. 11. THEY WILL ACCUSE THEIR OPPONENT OF NOT ANSWERING THEIR QUESTIONS. AND most importantly to Try to do this before the opponent has an opportunity to answer anything. Trying to infer that they have given them multiple opportunities to do so. THEY WILL still Do this even if the question has been answered. If the opponent misses the question and asks them to repeat it THEY WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REPEAT THE QUESTION FOR THEIR  BENEFIT as they are instructed to do so. 12. THEY WILL RESORT TO INSULTS. and Try to question the opponent’s masculinity, their resolve, ANYTHING, and try to diminish and demean them. (This is know as the “LBJ Rule” codified by him thus: “Accuse your opponent of being a pig fornicator, then make him deny it.) REMEMBER, IF THEY HAVE TO RESORT TO THIS TACTIC, IT MEANS YOU'RE WINNING! 13. THEY WILL ACCUSE THEIR OPPONENTS OF BEING UNINFORMED. This works especially well when they are asked to provide their sources. It is especially effective if they refer to a reference to someone they have already demonized. Rush Limbaugh is currently the Demon of Choice. 14. THEY WILL SPEAK CRYPTICALLY. and Try to make it difficult for people to define their meaning. 15. THEY WILL CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Try to get it back to THEIR original talking points (see #1 above) 16. THEY WILL APPEAR TO AGREE. they will need to do this in order to achieve #15. 17. THEY WILL CLAIM THEIR OPPONENT IS BEING UNREASONABLE OR WON’T LISTEN TO REASON, AND LEAVE IN A HUFF or anger, usually followed by an insult, as they are in instructed to do so. 18.THEY WILL BAIT THE OPPONENT. Needle them, tease them, call them names until the opponent makes an inappropriate post or comment, then scream bloody murder to the Moderator. 19. THEY WILL DENY ANY EVIDENCE EXISTS. THEY WILL Ask for evidence of wrongdoing by those you support. When that evidence is presented, they continue denying that it exists, as the are instructed to do so.                                                                  ...... but always remember to support and protect our country, her freedoms, and her constitution, We Constitutional Conservatives WILL VOTE FOR OUR CONSTITUTION 2012!

RueMcDowell
RueMcDowell

YOU GO WEST, THERE People who would have done the same thing...We expect our heros to be killed but not to stop it if they can?I vote for West if he run for President!

KYHighlander
KYHighlander

I consider torture to be when you inflict pain on someone to gain information. Firing a pistol into sand near someones head is not painful, maybe to the ears. Next you won't be able to speak sternly to them for fear that will be considered torture. Oh God! he ponted his finger at me and and gave me a mean look, I want him charged with torture.

Superlib
Superlib

You ignorant idiots, you sit back and judge LT. COL West as if you are aware of the realities of war. I am sick and tired of people questioning the work of Soldiers. Very few Soldiers make unprofessional decisions. Those instances will be handled and those Soldiers will have to live with the decisions that they did and did not make. If you have a problem with scaring the info out of the enemy your pansy ass probably hasn't so much as been in a fist fight. There is no such thing as a fair fight. War is not black and white, and a true warrior understands the right side of the gray area. You think that because you watch CNN, NBC, or even FOX news that you know how the world really is. As George Orwell said,“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night tovisit violence on those who would do us harm.” Until you can understand the realities of the world and war be thankful that LT. COL West has the balls to visit violence on those that wish YOU harm. The corruption in that takes place in the Middle East is really too much for the average American can comprehend. If you haven't experienced that side of the world first hand (sitting your POG ass on a base doesn't count), take a trip it might change your perspective.

JLP
JLP

Why the hell would you believe Hamoodi?

riceroni
riceroni

Great piece! Allen West is not only a disgrace to the African-American community as most see him as nothing but the teabagger's glorified shoe shine boy, as well as a just plain stupid fucking imbecile. But he's a disgrace to America in general.

John_ra
John_ra

Agreat man and military leader. These are the type people we need leading us in the fight for America.

syd..j.j.
syd..j.j.

I am going to wait until all of the fact come out. If West is hiding something itwill come out. Why is someone calling people a pinko communist just because they'are not ultra conservative ( far right).I am proud to be a Liberterian. Neitherthe Repubs or the Dems have shown me anything to be impressed about in the lastten years.

Chester Bogus
Chester Bogus

Here's the thing:

No, what West did isn't really torture. But it IS, however, forbidden by the Geneva Conventions and, I believe, the uniform code of conduct.

Is West a war criminal? Technically - yes. What he did may not formally be considered torture, but it is technically a war crime.

The real issue here is two-fold: 1) it is NOT ok to "do whatever it takes" to win a war. Humankind as a species decided a long time ago that there were lines which cannot be crossed.

2) The U.S. military holds itself to very high standards - to live up to those standards is difficult, and it takes a LOT of integrity. West? Not so much. He failed to live up to the military's code of conduct, disgracing not himself, but his uniform, his branch of service and his entire nation.

Yeah, we owe him gratitude for serving but we also have to admit that he failed to live up to his oaths.

Magpul
Magpul

Definitiely a complicated issue.. I am going to wait till all the facts are in until I make my opinion

Safe Tanning
Safe Tanning

Sad if Daniel Pearl was right here do you feel he would have the exact same opinion? Following all he was tortured, he didn't reside to level a dirty filthy finger at a single of our individual. you the author of this write-up, have the stain of our soldiers blood coming out the end of your printers stylus. they have payed the cost of time, life, and damage to assure your Correct to publish here. You Failsafe tanning

Anonymous
Anonymous

Me too.

West acted appropriately based on the intelligence he received.

Robert Wood
Robert Wood

Allen West makes me proud to be an American!

Anonymous
Anonymous

Ignorant fucking moron to beat all ignorant fucking morons writes: people have been getting killed in the name of islam on u.s. soil for 35 years.

Okay killer, line 'em up. You show me the list of those killed in the name of a Muslim God, and then I'll show you a list of those killed in the name of a Christian God.

I'll wait on this response same as I wait on all requests for response from those with no argument:

Forever.

Chris Vosburg
Chris Vosburg

patatrosphe writes: war is not nice. conflict is not nice. at some point, when an adversary is poking you in the eye with a sharp stick, you have to end his existence.

By way of reminder, Iraq was not poking a sharp stick in anybody's eye, and was in fact complying with inspections to determine the extent of WMDs remaining.

As well, carpet-bombing Iraqi civilians in their homes has little to do with your imagined offfense.

But this is not important to you, is it?

But it's important to me: It means that this was nothing less than simple genocide, and I'd be interested to hear your defense of it.

Keep digging, sick killer for fun, the bottom's gotta be down there somewhere.

Chris Vosburg
Chris Vosburg

Jewish Marksman writes: Would not want my boy lead by an academic who has to consult with the ACLU before taking action to keep his men safe.

The American Civil Liberties Union did not write, nor contibute input to, any of the statutes comprising the Uniform Code of Military Justice, under which West was charged.

So, you're lying when you characterize the incident as such. Tell your boy: Daddy's so afraid of the truth that he lies to avoid enduring it; I'm sure it will make him proud of you, and there's more:

Jewish Marksman also writes: To quote a great movie, you guys can't handle the truth.

In the movie you cite, Nathan Jessup was on the stand lying furiously about his actions. Finally, he was trapped into an admission of his lies.

You sure you want to hold this up to us or your son as an example?

patastrophe
patastrophe

@TRUE DOUCHEBAG-your existence is all it takes to get their weenies hard and their dull knives all a-twtitter. Do your research, these assholes have been torturing, bombing, and killing us for a lot longer than we have been in iraq or afghanistan. people have been getting killed in the name of islam on u.s. soil for 35 years.

war is not nice. conflict is not nice. at some point, when an adversary is poking you in the eye with a sharp stick, you have to end his existence. you will never be comfortable with someone that understands the truth of that statement, because you want everyone to be nice.

i notice from your tone and name calling you exempt yourself from having to be courteous and nice and civil. i, however, am totally comfortable with conflict and humbly invite you to take your horseshit anit-militarism and stuff it up your old tan track.

Phillip Ley
Phillip Ley

Interesting group of comments about Allen West. You can always tell a lot about a person, especially a military commander, by listening to those who served under him or her. Seems like those who served under him liked him, a lot, and he commanded a great deal of respect...I have stared down the barrel of a gun. It's not anything I want to repeat, and I will follow a man who will lead me past it. From what I see of the ethos of today's military, and the horde of field-grade officers and noncoms I know who are exiting because of the suffusion of political correctness and literally dangerous rules of engagement, I think this man did the right thing by getting out. He can be more effective elsewhere. Most of the negative comments seem to be from those who don't appreciate their right to complain.

almased di�lan
almased di�lan

Superb website, I definetly read this really slow. People should never forget the importance of a balanced life. And from time to time a healthy eating plan cannot do such big harm, just try it.

Christinia Summerton
Christinia Summerton

I never thought I would agree with this opinion, but I�m starting to see things differently.

Fred Perry Clothing
Fred Perry Clothing

I wish we could win more tennis competitions. I don't think we've won anything since the days of Fred Perry

Sam
Sam

West is a disgraced war criminal. US congressman?? Good luck, what a joke,

Sean Slaughter
Sean Slaughter

I was there in the 2/20fa in Bravo Battery and LTC West was my battalion commander. Our area of operations in Iraq was the most secure area in all of Iraq during the time he was commanding. The GOOD Iraqis which are about 95% of them loved him because of the outstanding lengths he went through to help them. The bad ones hated him because he was so effective that they could hardly ever succesfully pull of an attack without being entirely decimated or turned in by the good Iraqis in the area. I would gladly serve with LTC West anytime in a Combat zone as he is a commander that cares immensely about his soldiers and as he said he would walk through hell with a gas can to save one of us. When he was relieved of command it was the worst time for our battalion as they replaced him with a dumb #$@ LTC that never led soldiers before and then because he would not listen to his soldiers and NCO's 2 of my close friends were killed in a IED blast and I was injured in another IED blast. All I hafta say is "GO WEST" and "DEEP STRIKE"

Patrick
Patrick

Allen West is nothing but a cowardly bully with an anger control problem. I heard him threaten a caller on the Steve Kane Show last year. He told the caller that he would meet him in a parking lot of his choosing after the caller called him an Uncle Tom. Allen West left the military in disgrace and now wants to use the fact that he wore the uniform to propel him into Congress. He has proven himself to be a person that doesn�t like to follow the rules; he considers himself above the law and is mentally unstable. He will never win an election with that kind of baggage.

Bill Colley
Bill Colley

The writer is obviously a moral deviant. I've heard stories from members of the heroic World War Two generation that make Allen West's actions resemble a slumber party. There are brave Americans dying around this globe and then you've got these deviant liberal 5th Columnists. I think a few of these cowards need a head shoved in sand (likely it's happened and may explain the anger of these Cabernet sipping lightweights)and a few rounds popped near their ears. Another option would be to drop them off in Anbar. They can hold hands with Ali and sing songs. With any luck these walking pustules will get what they deserve.

Steve Ellman
Steve Ellman

Torture? Maybe not exactly. Abuse? Definitely. Helpful? No evidence that it was. War crime? Unquestionably.But go on praying for a "strong man" to rescue you. There's a sucker born every minute.

Paula
Paula

Torture? NO. Scare tactic? Yes. All I know is, I'm tired of feeling like a sitting duck because the past 6 administrations have left our borders open and acted like they couldn't refuse anyone entry into our country. I want someone like West in charge who sees his most important job as saving our nation under its present form of government and, most importantly, keeping me safe. I don't think we've been getting the protection we pay for for a very long time.West is not a hero, but he takes his job as protector seriously and best of all, he's not politically correct. It's wonderful to hear the truth from someone who wants power, but, as he said, doesn't need to be popular.As for the "victim" who claimed they didn't get any info out of him: did it ever occur to anyone that he was lying? Of course, he was.

TRUE AMERICAN
TRUE AMERICAN

You fucking idiot teashitters. When will you realize that this Jack Bauer shit you rub your nuts to every night is exactly what gets OUR MILITARY tortured and shot and threatened with dull knives. What do you think happened when this innocent guy went back to his friends and told them what Colonel BlackJack did with a gun and a barrel? Do you think that might piss some people off? Maybe even made some folks angry enough to want to KILL more US troops? Mr. West should go to his fucking room and pray nobody does this to him. And his supporters (yes, you Joyce Kaufman) should apologize for your part in ruining a great fucking nation for the sake of profit and entertainment.

Steve Ellman
Steve Ellman

Like I said: 1)There's no evidence West's actions served any useful purpose (and he admitted as much to the NY Times) 2) West's actions violated the laws of war (and contra the quasi-fascist neanderthal comments on this list, there are laws of war).

Bob
Bob

War is hell. It's not a condo meeting with Roberts Rules.

I say do whatever it takes to get information necessary to protect human lives. At lease he didn't drag him through a village, hang him, or behead him.

Those of you who have never been in war should have an asterisk next to your opinion.

Try whining a little less and sit back and enjoy the freedom people like Allen West have fought for and given you.

roy
roy

Here is a great article for all you bleeding hearts that actually believe "playing nice" is going to make an ounce of difference with these animals; An American-born former Muslim once said to me, "When I was a Muslim I attended about 20 mosques here in America. I can say that every single one of them preached the hatred of Jews, Americans and Israel. Americans are being deceived by their media, their leaders and political commentators; political correctness is literally going to kill millions of you." - Zak Izzat a former Muslim born Detroit in the USA. This is only one of many former muslims that will tell you the same or similar stories. Don't get your info from brain dead anti-american people like the moron that wrote the article we are commenting on!!!!!!!

roy
roy

Great comment Jewish Marksman! I know if we be really nice to these barbarians they will leave our heads attached right. you libs are in dream land and you are largely responsible for the mess we have on our hands now. time to be big boys and toss the panties!

roy
roy

You pinko, commie mud slugs are so gutless and you have the audacity to accuse Mr West of being anything other than a war hero. all of you putting out your stinking fish wrap propaganda can look no further than your "hero" obama to see what a real non patriot looks like!! You maggot infested pig larvae!To anonymous above here, I am sure you would have it all under control while risking your life for your country so why weren't you over there to show us how it is done. The "investigative" pros you talk about are so full of p.c. crap that it wouldn't matter if he had tapped them on the shoulder or torn out their finger nails, it would STILL have been torture. People of your mind set are going to get us all killed!

Anonymous
Anonymous

I have yet to see any of West's defenders reply to the points I posted high up in this thread:1) West went outside the chain of command rather than rely on trained military interrogators. If he was really concerned with the safety of his troops he would have put a lid on his anger and let persons skilled in investigative work do their jobs. No actionable intelligence resulted from his "enhanced interrogation technique."2) Paul Heller may not feel that West practiced "torture" but, whatever else you want to call it, West clearly engaged in a war crime, specifically, violation of Article 31 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War), which states that "No physical or moral coercion shall be exercised against protected persons, in particular to obtain information from them or from third parties."His supporters are clearly smitten with West's Pattonesque bravado, and it appears some of his troops were as well. To me, however, his actions smack of fascism--self-righteous and reckless. West had the good grace to tell the NY Times "It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi" and that "Certain things we have to do in war are outside our character." I question whether West "had" to abuse Hamoodi but at least he tried to distance himself from those acts, unlike his supporters, who praise him for them.

Rachel
Rachel

Real men? Real men don't need to act like cowards and reactionary fools. Mr. West is a disgrace.

Sarge
Sarge

Real war hero's do not refer to themselves as such. How many Medal of Honor winners who are still alive have you observed flashing their medal around as political candidates? Remember Senator Bob Kerry of Nebraska, Navy Seal and recipient of a CMH?

US Army officers should never behave in the manner West described his behavior in the affidavit. In the end it seems he had the wrong guy altogether, and probably alienated whatever moderate Iraqi cops were there in that town.

Nice Job Allen, you dimwit.

PeterUlti7
PeterUlti7

Mr Francis you are a despicable, coward individual who makes a living trying to dicredit 'REAL MEN', there is nothing on Mr: West actions that can be considered torture, and his methods averted an attack on his men, this is the kind of commander I wished I had when I was in Viet-Nam and as a Vet that endure the attacks of people like you when I came back from the War and felt betrayed by my country , I support Mr: West quest to help this country turn back this nightmare administration that is in power now.

CAREE AGUNN
CAREE AGUNN

HE SHOULD HAVE SHOT HIM IN THE FOOT AND THEN GOT OUT A DULL KNIFE AND PLACED IT AT HIS THROAT AS MUSLIMS DO OUR GUYS!

ibsteve2u
ibsteve2u

 If by "talking points" you mean the facts and the numbers, then...well, #1 is certainly correct.

Most of the rest of your message, however, is straight out of the playbook of Fox News - and consequently now a part of the right's S.O.P.

DaddyLove
DaddyLove

Torturing a prisoner into giving false information is what "their people" do too? How does that make it a good idea for us?

DaddyLove
DaddyLove

Torture is always wrong, dude.

Calvinius
Calvinius

When a soldier commits war crimes, that's absolutely worthy of my and every other American's judgment. Allen West is a torturer, and I don't want someone like that in my government.

paulo m
paulo m

@e435b798ad6f6f43f47c1575114f3924:disqus 9. THEY WILL ACCUSE THE OPPONENT OF A MENTAL DEFECT OR LACK OF INTELLIGENCE. Personal attacks of this sort are especially useful as the target will almost always try to defend himself, thus changing the subject.  

12. THEY WILL RESORT TO INSULTS. and Try to question the opponent’s masculinity, their resolve, ANYTHING, and try to diminish and demean them. (This is know as the “LBJ Rule” codified by him thus: “Accuse your opponent of being a pig fornicator, then make him deny it.) REMEMBER, IF THEY HAVE TO RESORT TO THIS TACTIC, IT MEANS YOU'RE WINNING! 13. THEY WILL ACCUSE THEIR OPPONENTS OF BEING UNINFORMED. This works especially well when they are asked to provide their sources. It is especially effective if they refer to a reference to someone they have already demonized. Rush Limbaugh is currently the Demon of Choice.

Highcontext
Highcontext

Let me explain something REALLY simple to you, you moron.

War crime. Read that word. Read it again. Roll it around in your mind. Think about it. War. Crime. Warcrime. War crime.

Think about that word. A crime committed in war. The very concept of the war crime means that, even during war, there are SOME THINGS YOU DON'T DO.

"Playing nice"? Are you a fucking idiot? Seriously, are you a ten-year-old on your parents' computer pounding away at your keyboard?

Convicting people of war crimes doesn't mean we want to "play nice." We're saying that, "Look, we know we're at war. But there are still some things that you do not do."

How is this hard for you to understand? Why are conservatives so fucking thick?! War crime means that, even in a war, there are still things you can do that are illegal.

So, what? You think we should just commit war crimes instead of "playing nice"? So, you mean, we should torture people? We should fire on the red cross? We should fire on battle medics? We should shoot civilians? We should conduct war without uniforms?

Seriously, do you even know what a war crime is? You. Are. A. Moron.

paulo m
paulo m

@scxfan:disqus  -- 4. THEY WILL ACCUSE THE OPPONENT OF SAYING SOMETHING HE DIDN’T. They will Attempt to define their opponent's  statements in a negative light. Interpret them that way and state it as fact that they did actually say it. NEVER asking  them…always TELLING them what their meaning was.

Superlib
Superlib

you're a faggot, punching someone isn't torture. Scaring someone with a gun shot isn't either. Of all the war crimes you listed LT. COL West has not been proven guilty of any of them. If he killed civilians indiscriminately you would have a point, but we have heard nothing of this. Instead of attempting to define war crime work on the former part first, as you obviously know nothing of war. 

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