The Domain Name Industry, South Florida, and Professionalism

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Last week, I attended the SouthFloridaDomainers.com event, which was put on by the company Oversee.net. Most of the early innovation in domain name trading, development, and selling originated right here in South Florida. The founders of SFD, Mike Ward, Stu Maloff, and Brian Diener, are some local Domainers in South Florida who have a passion for the industry.

Of course, Boca Raton's own Rick Schwartz is probably the most-often-cited and quoted domainer in the industry. He's sold names like property.com, candy.com and supposedly a lot of adult domain names.  

In fact, it turns out that about a third of the top-level domain traders in the industry live in South Florida. Vancouver is another hotbed, but since those domainers choose to live in arctic-like conditions, we will not focus on them at all.

Attending SFD, I learned three things about the domain name industry I hadn't known before:
  1. Domains involve a lot of lawyers.
  2. Most participants in the domainer business are really amateurs.
  3. There might not be a more conniving crowd than these people.
I attended the event having been invited by a friend. I've dabbled in domain trading and development before and have made some money doing it, but I have always thought of myself as just a dabbler, an amateur. Turns out, I've done more of it than most of the "experts" in attendance. A lot of them were there, I think, to try to siphon information from the successful domainers.

It's amazing how many things there are surrounding the domain business as well. Lawyers, mostly, but they are the back-end that most people don't see. They cut deals, smooth out the legalities, and work on people's behalves to defend against or prosecute theft of trademarks or copyrights. With them are the paralegals and support staff. All focused on the domain-name industry.

To get an idea of what domain name trading and selling means, here are some examples of what's been traded:

Mike Ward sold miamibeachhotelrooms.com for $2,500, his highest pure domain sale to date. Most of his domains are Thai and .pro extensions, however. Mike has more than 1,200 domain names in his portfolio currently.  

He met Stu Maloff (a third-grade teacher in Coral Springs) at an auction where they were bidding against each other. Neither would admit who won the auction (lol), but they got together and found out they could do well collaborating together, so they've done so since.

Stu's highest sale was for $6,000 for an undisclosed domain name. It was a New York business name. That was all he'd say.

Brian is an interesting part of this trio of founders, as he's only 16 and goes to St. Andrews in Boca.  He sold a domain for $1,000 to a lawyer but is under a nondisclosure agreement and can't say what the domain was. He currently owns several domains, including teendomainer.com. Not sure if he'll have to give it up by default in four years when it's no longer relevant for him, though. Brian funds his domain-name acquisitions through sales and through eBay auctions.

"I know you are wondering what this kid is doing here, since you all probably have domains older than me," Brian said.

Another person I was honored to meet was Monte Cahn of Moniker.com. That business owns 117 registrars around the internet and has more than 3 million domain names registered. Their best-known site outside of Moniker is Nameking.com, which holds about 700,000 names.  

Monte began business out of his bedroom in 1999 and hasn't looked back. He saw the potential for domain-name investing back in 1995, and from then to '99, he purchased more than 1,000 domains and found ways to monetize them in the fledgling AlNet. That was before the internet got its new name when Al Gore left to go into politics.

His first major sale, with his new company in 1999, was a $1 million name: wallstreet.com. In 1999, they pulled in $2.2 million for autos.com. In 2000, they became an officially recognized ICANN registrar when they purchased a small Canadian company.

As you can see, some of the old movers and shakers were there, as were the new generation of domainers. Mingling in the crowd, I found that most domainers are either amateurs like me, who sell the occasional $200 or $300 name or are posers who haven't sold much and have little idea how to really go about it.

Some domainers specialize in pure name acquisition and resell, some pick up domains and develop them for sale, and others purchase names to sell in groups or bulk lots to other domainers or investors.  

It's an amazing industry, and most of it takes place, quietly, right here in South Florida.
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22 comments
Kevin Miller
Kevin Miller

Hi, just a moment back I was searching for the information on the same topic and now I am here. So much information, really well executed blog. This is really informative and I will for sure refer my friends the same. Thanks   Broward Movers

Craig Agranoff
Craig Agranoff

Amazing how people like Stephen Douglas like to whine and cry, and complain that twitter is a way for me to lure people into being my friend on twitter. If you all feel like leaving me your email addresses on this comment board, please go ahead and I will send you a message.

But if you do not want the world having your contact information, then I suggest sending me a DM on twitter with your email address so I can include you in the follow up story.

If you don't want to included in the follow up, then I suggest you stop your crying.

Adios

Stephen Douglas
Stephen Douglas

Craig,

I checked out your Linkedin page and saw the social sites you're developing. They have a lot of opps, and at least one domain you own is a winner.

However, you're being disingenuous yourself when you don't answer my questions straight up. You want your readers to believe:

1) That asking for info from AN ATTORNEY for inside info on their clients/projects should get you beyond "atty/client" privilege and other confidential responses. I believe you know this, and if you act like you don't, you will make any businessman doubt your veracity.

2) Again, you answer my question of why you arrived at calling domainers "conniving" with generalities of looping logic: "My reason for using this "conniving" term was based upon some of the conversations I had." No sh*t. Of course that's how you arrived at your conclusion. Now tell us, without names, what was said to you that made you determine most domainers at this small event are "conniving". If you can't do this, me thinks thou doest bitch too much.

3) I asked you how you could make a "blanket assessment" of all domainers from such a small event. Your answer is the antithesis of a logical response about what a "blanket assessment" could be. If someone asks you how you arrived to your conclusion describing a GLOBAL INVESTMENT COMMUNITY, you wouldn't respond with "I wrote the blanket assessment due to the fact that I was at a small, local, event.The Broward/Palm Beach New Times is a local publication." WHAT?!! Your correct response would be: "Because I have been in this business for over five years, attended over five top domain conferences, purchased over 100 aftermarket domains from live auctions, domain individuals, and online auction sites." I can tell you, but I think you already know, that there are at least 200 expert domainers who DOUBLE what I described above, including myself.

Now if you wanted to hire me to show you how to make money with your domains, I'll consider it, but you should know I won't sweet talk you even for your money. (Just ask my clients)

You can't make hyperbolic negative claims about an entire industry and the people involved in that industry, and then expect to move with velvet slippers into the upper echelons of that industry.

Your post was a mistake. I seriously suggest you spend about 60 days really researching what domain investing is about, attend TRAFFIC Vegas, and DOMAINFEST and GEODOMAINS. I'm sure that after attending these events, you'll come back with some apologies, and talk straight about the prodservs you offer.

You may find that winning the crowd is easier and more beneficial with innovative and constructive comments, even if some people disagree. But I think your blogpost as mentioned here attacked, without merit, the domain industry and the people involved, and revealed you to possibly be a hypocrite.

On the other hand, your blog article could have been just a stunt for attention from the domain industry, and you've implemented broken thinking for marketing the "game"...

However, if you play the game here, don't mistake the castles, knights, bishops and queens for "pawns." Nothing more here...

Over and out

Dtagr
Dtagr

"Vancouver is another hotbed, but since those domainers choose to live in arctic-like conditions"

If by "Arctic Conditions" you mean topless beaches with 90 degrees fahernheit temperatures please stay in South Florida. I don't need your company to enjoy the scenery here.

Otherwise an excellent article from an outsiders perspective. Anyone interested in the industry should know 2 things:1:Shill bidding is rampant at every major auction house.2:The majority of domain bloggers haven't sold anything of import.

I take the claims of everyone from this industry with many grains of salt.

Welcome to domaining.

Craig Agranoff
Craig Agranoff

Guys, some of the very "top level" domainers who you seem to praise on the other blogs and such, were the very people I found to be conniving. Anytime someone asks you a question that they do not want to answer when asked back, is conniving.

I was happy I attended and I plan on continuing to attend.

@stephendouglas:

1) I spoke to about 4 attorneys dealing in this who provided me with ample information on the industry. Even Brian told me he cannot disclose a sale to me since there were lawyers involved.

2) I am sure every industry has their "connivers." My reason for using this "conniving" term was based upon some of the conversations I had.

3) I wrote the blanket assessment due to the fact that I was at a small, local, event.The Broward/Palm Beach New Times is a local publication.

M. Menius
M. Menius

stewart says: M.menu? RE: conniving concerns of yours? I am sure Halvarez shares your bruised feelings too, amd that he is deeply concerned about the impact on the industry as a whole?

Excellent. An anonymous coward speaks up to further the conversation.

Daniel Thomas Pryor
Daniel Thomas Pryor

Thanks for covering the industry, and thanks for providing some awareness of domain industry to those unfamiliar with it.

As with all fledgling industries, there are those who are very successful, there are those who have been lucky, and there are also predators among the ranks. The people attending this meeting were there to rediscover each other and their common goals. So many of us rarely meet in the flesh.

Oversee.net's sponsorship of the event made it a larger gathering than in previous years, though this was, admittedly, my first time attending this gathering.

Oversee.net also gained some much-needed public relations aid from its sponsorship, though the long-term effect of that sponsorship on the company's image remains to be seen.

Those who do not understand the domain industry - I profess I have a stronger insight than laypersons, but hardly qualify as an expert - could easily construe the participants in this new field of entrepreneurialism as being amateurs. This is a misnomer, as an amateur is someone who is striving to gain a skill, learn a trade, and who is otherwise endeavoring to become (one would presume) an expert in a field where there are existing experts.

Given the infancy of the domain world, it would be difficult to qualify anyone as an expert, save for those who have been able to consistently perform well, financially and in terms of user traffic, in the online arena. Even they who have been successful are best described as the pioneers of a bold new enterprise that they are defining.

There are, however, plenty of amateurs at life, itself. Many are the critics who remain on the sidelines, carefully observing the world about them, and suborning commentary for events that is contrary to the underlying reality. These unfortunate misperceptions include inaccurate - sometimes irrelevant - academic descriptions of deeds and the impact of them on the overall social and economic station of our world.

Given that the domain industry only congealed as a bonafide economic element in 2004 - though investment began 10 years earlier - it stands to reason there are going to be periods of growth, shakeout, more growth and new things learned.

Some of these men had enough foresight to get into the game early, when they realized the potential of the domain name system and its effect on commerce. They are possibly the only experts we could name in the field of domaining. But more, they are investors and entrepreneurs who are literally defining this fledgling enterprise called the Internet.

With all that said, let's be honest: This is still an industry at its incipience, and it will evolve, even mutate, as more is learned by those investing in the Internet, in domain names, and in development of online networks, by who are bold enough to risk themselves and their fortunes to mold a new commerce.

Stephen Douglas
Stephen Douglas

Hi,

I seem to get a feeling that you're an intelligent person, which seems so much more disturbing when I read your article on a small get-together of mainly local domainers, amateurs, novices and experts.

First of all, I will warn you I'm from the "Arctic region" of the domain industry. There's a lot of high powered domainers up here that equal the diagonal cross country cousins in S. Florida. NOTE: Domainers don't rate each other by their geo location...

So my questions to you are these:

1) How did you come to the conclusion that "lawyers" are heavily involved in domain investing? Can you give just two or three examples of proving your statement?

2) Same as #1, how did you come to the conclusion that most domainers are "conniving"? And when you chose that word, how did what you experienced at the SFD meeting give you that conclusion? And can you tell me any business you know of where the participants don't fall into a gray area surrounding the term "conniving"?

3) And back to my perception of your intelligence, I'd like to know why you wrote a blanket assessment on "domainers" by attending a small, local event, that doesn't include the global players that you would meet at the largest domain conference, DomainFest?

Finally, when you call domainers "conniving", where do you fall into that category, since you state:

"I attended the event having been invited by a friend. I've dabbled in domain trading and development before and have made some money doing it, but I have always thought of myself as just a dabbler, an amateur. Turns out, I've done more of it than most of the "experts" in attendance. A lot of them were there, I think, to try to siphon information from the successful domainers."

Pray tell, Mr. Agranoff, why were YOU there?

Domain investing is simply a marketing sector online, used by all the major corporations, and businesses of all sizes. It includes individual "investors" capitalizing on discovering a "gold mine" or two in domains. I don't have any examples, but I'm sure nobody wrote about successful gold miners in 1880 California, calling them "conniving".

What's conniving is the amount of posts you get from "anonymous" readers too chicken to reveal who they are to lend some credibility to their statements, or not.

Good luck in your domain investing...

miami hotel
miami hotel

Nice article. I am planning to get a domain name for my site. You helped !

Nobody
Nobody

This article is superb. Great to see someone who tells it like it is without any blinders on!

@crowdmanage
@crowdmanage

conniving is certainly not a word that comes to minds when i think of the domainers I know. maybe they are the ones in Vancouver!

Chaz Stevens
Chaz Stevens

I've been in the IT business since 1982 and just learned a new term...

Digital Native.

And what happens when said Digital Natives get restless? Do they start flinging bottles of Ballz Cola?

stewart
stewart

M.menu? RE: conniving concerns of yours? I am sure Halvarez shares your bruised feelings too, amd that he is deeply concerned about the impact on the industry as a whole?

M. Menus
M. Menus

For clarity, the domain name industry is comprised of many domain investors and developers who are located all around the globe. The companies mentioned by no means represent a majority of domainers. Some of them were around at the beginning and have played a prominent role.

Wanted to commend this interesting article, but with one caveat, the comment ...

"There might not be a more conniving crowd than these people."

Just want to say that this impression is troubling. I'm not questioning the writer's opinion. But did want to say that many, many folks who participate in the larger domain industry are not "conniving", and in fact are very ethical people. Really troubling to hear the conniving impression. Would like to hear more from the writer as to why he felt that way.

stewart
stewart

Re: lawyers remark?

can I get a list of the } does 1-99 attendees for the record please?

Drew K.
Drew K.

" ... but since those domainers choose to live in arctic-like conditions, we will not focus on them at all." lol

Interesting topic. Looking forward for more articles.

mike Ward
mike Ward

Thanks for covering the event and giving some exposure to the domaining industry. Many of the successful entrepreneurs in attendance were the very same domainers who created this industry.

The newcomers got a chance to mingle and talk to experienced veterans, make new contacts and compare notes. The folks from Oversee.net, Bido.com, Moniker.com and others came out and supported the event, and hopefully made some new inroads into the up-and-coming crowd of domainers.

Brian Deiner, @teendomainer spoke as a proxy for the generation of digital natives that are approaching the profession in new ways. They will bring new innovation to the business of domains, and it was exciting to have him sharing his mindset with everyone.

Jarred
Jarred

The event was a wonderful evening. Thank you for covering the event. Bido was there and we handed out some giveaways. Some of the faces in the crowd that night were actually some of the top investors in the space. Some of the other faces in the crowd that night were actually some of the top investors in the space. We're not exactly sure why South Florida is such a hotbed for domainers, but there are many in the area and many more just getting started. If any of your readers are looking to get involved in the domain business, we encourage them to check out Bido.com where we feature domain name auctions every day of the week.Thanks for covering the event and hope to see you at the next one.

really
really

Wow what a dumb article and slant you present.

Chaz Stevens
Chaz Stevens

Yawn.

Let's get to something that truly matters. I am, of course, speaking about porn.

Anonymous
Anonymous

Thanks for the information. I needed a break from the Rothstein frenzy and actually learned something here besides some conspiracy theory about iphone pings.

Thanks again.

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