Bob

first you say "I can't decide whether I like the practice or not."

and then you say: "I'm obviously ambivalent on it..."

and finally: "I'm going to go ahead and say I'm against the practice."

glad you cleared that up....obviously your mind changed from the time you started the post until you typed the last line. way to go!

I thought that's what writing was for ...

I would assume that the editors of the Post understand that the day will come when a member of their staff or the publisher's family gets arrested. Obviously, the paper would be required to run that person's mug shot and list of charges. Or it could be a car dealer/major advertiser. Are the editors sure they want to go down this road.

This reminds me a bit of those who insist on imposing the death penalty, even though it won't bring back the victim. Running these mug shots in no way helps the person get to the cause of his or her behavior in the incident. To me, its just voyuerism and titllation for the Post readership. All in all, pretty shabby way to sell papers.

So, how do you feel about paper's Websites publishing concealed-carry permit holders' names? It's basically the same argument...

Public records are, well, public, so we can legally print them, but how public is too public?

I don't see anything newsworthy about concealed weapons permits. What's the point of running them?

Hey Bob-Oh -
As one who has been busted and spent the night in jail, all I can say is "If you can't do the time..don't do the crime."
Also, the Post mug shots do a wonderful job of giving the public a good idea of the real "bad guys" the cops spend their time chasing.

re: concealed weapons permits

It's a public safety issue...same reason that could be given for running these mugs. However, one can argue that there's no use for a concealed permit if people know you have one. The other thing would be, the gun-owners are lawful. But just as Bob's arguing that some of these folks are innocent, you could argue that some of the gun owners are not.

It's a fine line and a slippery slope.

good point john. that's one reason i'm so weak-handed on the issue. let's put it this way: i wouldn't put up the mugshots, but i don't think the post deserves strong condemnation over it.

One point should be clarified: for the Post this is not a question of informing readers or raising community awareness or any such nonsense. It's plain dollars and cents.

The mugshots generate HUGE web traffic for pbpost.com, more than any of the paper's editorial product. That's the reason it's so prominently displayed on the site.

I'm sure the top editors, all old-school newspapermen, aren't too thrilled to have it up there. But these days Web hits speak louder than scoops or artful ledes. As long as Cox is a for-profit corporation those mugs ain't going anywhere.

One point should be clarified: for the Post this is not a question of informing readers or raising community awareness or any such nonsense. It's plain dollars and cents.

The mugshots generate HUGE web traffic for pbpost.com, more than any of the paper's editorial product. That's the reason it's so prominently displayed on the site.

I'm sure the top editors, all old-school newspapermen, aren't too thrilled to have it up there. But these days Web hits speak louder than scoops or artful ledes. As long as Cox is a for-profit corporation those mugs ain't going anywhere.

Actually, the names of permit holders are no longer public record, thanks to an Orlando TV station that posted them all and a gun-coddling State Legislature.

The records are useful, however, especially since the state allows felons to have permits. Unfortunately, the state decided that felons' privacy is more important than the public interest.

Correction: Contrary to the above-stated, the state of Florida absolutely does NOT allow felons to own guns, barring the restoration of their civil rights, a relatively rare occurence in which the felona slso regains the right to vote.

You're quite naive, sir.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-gunmain29jan29,0,3539314.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

That is why the database needs to be public.

Also see: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/sfl-gunmain28jan28,0,2918397.story

With all due respect, I don't think naive would be the term to describe my clarification that felons AREN'T permitted to have guns in Florida. I think "correct" would be more apt. Need proof? Here it is, straight from the link you provided:

"The state is supposed to suspend a concealed weapon license if the holder is arrested or formally charged with a felony. Or a drug crime. Or if a judge imposes a restraining order against the licensee for domestic violence.

"If the charge is dismissed, the person cleared, or the restraining order dropped, the license is restored.

"If the person is found guilty of a crime of violence, the state will revoke the license."

I never said the system worked perfectly, or that felons never ended up keeping their guns. As you probably know, murder is also prohibited in Florida, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I agree with you that the concealed weapons database should be public. But you were mistaken when you said felons are permitted to have gun permits.

If you're from a newspaper background like me, and therefore theoretically in favor of truth and the right to know and all that, you should be thanking me for catching the (accidental?) misstatement.

You didn't say "permitted", you said this:

"the state of Florida absolutely does NOT allow felons to own guns"

According to the article, it does. Sometimes with knowledge, sometimes without. The whole problem is that there are (or at least were) felons who had valid permits, despite being felons. Your use of the word "absolutely" is what painted your statement as naive to me.

I didn't misstate anything. Because of the state's idiocy, lax oversight and fear of any regulations, it has allowed (at least in the past) felons to have concealed weapons permits.

The story proves it. The state gave felons permits. End of story, move on.

Real Issue, another piece of honesty: If running the mug shots was bringing in massive amounts of page views, I'd leave the mug shots right where they are. That's just reality. But I wouldn't necessarily like the smell.

Kee-ryst!
What a bunch of arcane horseshit!
Like do these didactic dickheads believe any walk around person would give a flying flop about their verbal marshmellow fight over Poynteristic minutia?
My suggestion?
The Post should run the mug shots on its web under a standing head that reads "TODAY'S ASSHOLES"
Now by God, that would be fun.
And yeh.
I was a total ASSHOLE when I got busted and and spent the night right where I belonged in a cell full of piss and vomit a few years ago.
What's more, if they'd put my mug shot in the paper it would have served me right.

>> I was a total ASSHOLE

Seems like you have continued that trend pretty much unabated since then...

Revenue is the only god being worshipped at The Post these days. But hey, if these mugshots bring in the bucks, maybe they'll save our jobs. Keep on postin' post!

If it's such a big money-maker, riddle me this, Pulpman: why are there only Post promos on those web pages?

Just to add a little fuel to the fire (or maybe extinguish the flames) let's that the print product for years has been publishing published content that has absolutely nothing to do with actual news events/topics.

Since almost the beginning of modern newspapers, all kinds of extraneous, pandering junk has found its way into the pages of our daily publications in the hopes of attracting/keeping a few more subscribers.

Some examples:

- Sudoku puzzles
- Crossword puzzles
- Wedding announcements
- School lunch menus
- Horoscopes
- Ann Landers, Liz Smith, et. al.

And the list goes on.

I'm not saying that I would have made the same decision as the editors/producers at pbp.com. But uploading three days worth of booking mugs from the PB County jail isn't so far removed from other ways on which newspapers have, to a certain extent, compromised their mission in the name of securing a few more subscriptions.

Thom, right now it looks like they're using it to generate traffic to the rest of the website (specifically real estate and classifieds). You know, this whole monetization of the Internet thing is still pretty archaic. I'm not sure any company that doesn't rhyme with "boogle" has it ironed out yet.

Dear Just a Point -
Of course I am still an asshole.
But hell, even my 11-year-old grandson knows that!
Only different between my assholeness years ago and today is:
(1) I am having a hell of a lot more fun
(2) I no longer seek to cause harm -- except to some egos.
(3) I try not take myself so seriously
(4) I accept the sad fact that there is little anyone can do about the soporific state of most newspapers -- although I was once an idealistic asshole stupid enough to try.
Oh yes.
I assume by the tone of your pedantry is that the "point" you refer to is on your head.

Free content is the name of the game.

Seems to me if the Post is going to put up the mugshots, it has an obligation to inform the public as to the eventual disposition of the cases against these people.

Unfortunately, that would take more resources than "cut and paste."

As to Mr. deGroot's comments, unlike him not everyone considers being an asshole a badge of honor.

Bob,

While you may disagree with the posting of mugshot photos, I think they can serve YOU with a fantastic basis for an investigative story. Since you're the newspaper man, why don't you do a follow-up story on the percentage of the people arrested by racial, ethnic and economic classification who are eventually convicted and see how the percentage matches up with the arrests? Plus, you can also do a nice piece on the number of man hours spent to acheive that number of arrests and its resultant affect on the crime and perceptions of safety by the non-arrested public, if any.

That way, we can see if the efforts of our officers spent arresting every Tom, Dick, and Harry for what seems like an awful lot of petty "quality of life" crimes has any correlation with the budgets they request.

That's YOUR job, Mr. 4th Estate--find out if our tax money is getting us anything out of these endless arrests. You're the independent voice of the people. Start talking with it instead of bitching about how other people are using it for crap.