Broward Palm Beach Blog

Why, now, would a state try to effectively diminish income and the tax it could receive from said income? Also, this bill mentions '5' signatures, basically 5 artists 'permission' for you to tattoo. Can you legislate art? Does this sound like strong arming?

I actually read the Bill. It is only clear that some want to shut down the amount of artists working in Florida, and maybe shut some already existing. I know tattooists keep getting better, could the fear of competition be a motivator of this Bill?

This legislation seems fear based. Studios are already monitored and signed off by a doctor. The law as it is is plenty. Leave the tattooists of Florida alone to make a living, raise families and pay their taxes. It is their right.

It just sounds like she doesn't like tattooed people and is looking for a way to eliminate tattoos regardless of the consequences.

I disagree. I've read this legislation several times, and I really think it will encourage safe tattooing in FL, and protect FL tattooers. It is, after all, sponsored by the Florida Prefessional Tattoo Artists Guild (FloridaTattooGuild.com) Why would they sponsor something that's trying to "eliminate tattoos regardless of the consequences." Senator Sobel did indeed sit down with artists to write the bill, and the FPTAG has held open meetings explicitly to ask for input from Florida tattooers. It wasn't written to eliminate tatooing, but to make it safer, and I think thats something we can all agree we could use.

I am protesting this new bill. For you information, the peoples whom are supposed to representing the 800 tattoo establishments in Florida, are not our voice. I was involved in this "Guild" years ago and they voted themselves in as lifetime leaders. This "bill" was never proposed to the existing members and it was not sent to all the studios in Florida. I got a very generic letter and didn't respond, as I didn't understand the contents and was out of town when the letter came. Alot of us travel and don't know what is going on with the "Guild". Most tattoo studio's don't even know it exists. Most of the studio's I know about, already act in accordance with Bloodborne Pathogens courses, that we take on our own, just to be informed, and we have goverened ourselves. Without understanding the underbelly of tattooing, this bill will not only be a bad idea, as we depend on out of state artists for conventions, guest spots, or hiring out of state artists, it will only drive legal tattooing underground as before. We are artists, and that can't be stopped by laws and legislations. Most of the artists care so much about health issues and have the appropriate information reguarding health. We don't need a self proclaimed group of "professionals" dictating what shoudl happen in the state of Florida. I have been in this industry for over 27 years in the state of Florida. AS long as those "Guild" persons. I know already the Health Departments already have their hands full just governing body piercing. I have spoken to the Health Dept. in Duval County and they personally told me they were understaffed and didn't really want to handle this. It would also have to apply to the Permanent Makeup industry as it is the same. I am a licensed Esthetician as well and I know for a fact, they are not governed much at all. Tattoo artists know alot more than they do about the art of tattoo and equipment and sterilization procedures. I just spoke to a friend of mine who paid good money to learn how to apply permanent makeup and they handed her a grapefruit and told her to tattoo some eyebrows on it and handed her a certificate. Of course, I told her to take them to court. She did and won her money back,but it didn't stop them from taking other peoples money and wasting their time. Tattooing has come so far, I would hate to see it forced underground with so many rules and regulations in Florida, that it would make it undesireable for anyone to come here and work temporarily. We do a great job at governing our business. Any respectable studio is concerned about sanitary pratices and we keep close watch over visitors, as our names are on the licenses and we wouldn't want to take any risks with having an unknowledgeable person working for us. WE help them to get legit! Let us keep practicing our art as we have. One of the reasons for this I heard, was to save one of the persons money, as they pay a hefty fee for their doctor to come and inspect their establishments. They should get a new doctor that is not so greedy. You can call this veteran anytime. I know this business like the back of my hand. I have a very reputable business, with a vast history of the art of tattoo. I am a pioneer in my business, and would be happy to assist in any way. WE don't make the kinds of money you hear about on MIAMI INK. That is TV. WE are just trying to provide the safest, fun, most professional establishments for our hundreds of clients. If this law is passed, it will definately affect the industry in Florida and move alot of businesses out of here and money with it. You don't realize the capasity of this industry. WE have done well on our own. Bragging rights. WE as resposible persons, have made these very important changes in our practices to meet all the standards inforced by other states. WE have to, to keep current. WE keep close eyes on our tattoo brothers and sisters. I would also think this would have to apply to accupuncturists, as well, anyone dealing with potention blood borne pathogens. This small handful of people pushing this, well, noone likes them right now and I don't see this changing if this is passed. I personally will move to another state. I am a native Floridian, but I will not tolerate some independent group representing my life. Please feel free to call me anytime 904-669-7627. WE want to keep safe tattooing here in Florida. I know, it will force legitimate businesses out and put underground people in. You can't find them, they are able to hide pretty good. That is when it will get unsafe again. Please DO NOT let this bill get passes. Blessings, Sofia (aka Ms.Deborah's Fountain of Youth Tattoo and Body Piercing, Inc.) www.msdeborahtattoo.com

It seems to me this bill should be for the people tattooing out of their houses and the permanent makeup people who think they can tattoo our of their nail or hair salons withoutany licenses, supervision or permits. There is not a week that goes by that someone comes into our shop asking to buy tattoo supplies "because they were in the middle of a tattoo" and they ran out of ink (at their house). These are the people that needs to be pollced, not the many studios that abide by the laws and keep their permits and licenses active.

Hmmmm, the tax returns define a tattooist as a "professional?" That's very interesting. Next time I get my hair cut I will ask the beautician if she filed tax returns for the last five years. If she didn't, then she shouldn't have a license as she is not considered a "professional." Why are tattooists being singled out?

I have been reading all of these entries as they come in. I deal with the Professional Health network within the state. Being a nurse and I'm also a tattooist for well over twenty years, i find Debbi's rant most confusing. I know the officers on the FPTAG board, they are elected into term spots. I also have been involved with this organization (which my father was a member from the get go. I'll bet you that any one of these people would give up their positions if someone more capeble were to run for thier replacement. Debbie I personally dont know who you are, and to be quite honest, have never even heard of you!. I do know that the true "pioneers" in the tattoo industry would want nothing more than to preserve thier existance. When poeople such as Debbi and the others that dont understand what the true picture is, rant and rave with no message or true knowlege, it just shows thier own abillity to process even the simplest bit of information...To those that have been reading along with me , understand its people like Debbie that will be the downfall of our livelyhood. Alisa

i just realized something...the article keeps quoting stevie moon...he's one of the fools from the julie moon camp...julie dumped his hiney cause he raised so much stink when he was with her...i was wondering where stevie ended up...now we know, in our state stinking it up here...i would like to know when did stevie feel that his oppinion spoke for others...are we going to let someone such as this snibbleing welp think he has an oppinion that matters...ill bet no one out there even knows who this charecter is, and thier forming all this crap aruond what this no-bodt thinks...ha ha ha what a joke

Let the state Senators know that you are against any bill the guild has proposed. They do not speak for all of us.

Email each one from this page.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Legislators/index.cfm?Tab=legislators&CFID=128607080&CFTOKEN=40198261

To Bob the tattoo guy & Robert Hardon
Dear Sirs, to start YOU ARE both F%&*&%# MORRONS and liars, you sent 850 letters out; I have spoke with 107 shops in the last 2 days. Not ONE got this letter you speak of, including me; I have had my shop here for 2 years. So what, they went to a different 850 shops? This so called artist guild from what I can find is a joke, A bunch of losers that didn’t get breast fed long enough, they have not done anything in the past 7 years, now all the sudden you’re the talking ass for this group of wanna-be’s

And to finish, if it was not for Steve Moon, most of us would have no clue that this was even happening!!! My hats off to Steve… you, Bob the blowhard I would not piss on you if you where on fire you gutless festering puss filled pile of crap.

To everyone on here, these little pusses work at

Cadillac Tattoo Studios
(239) 690-2339
Address: 8024 Alico Rd, Fort Myers, FL 33912

Call them up and let them know what you think of them, I AM….

Ok, for starters can someone tell me about Steve Moon? Cause his website doesn't even work and I'd like to see what he's about? Thanks for the petition I think... gonna have to read the bill itself some more and determine if he's onto anything that effects the good reputable people from actually doing business in florida; but his tattooing abilities and studio have me curious.

www.steviemoon.com
I have been a client with him since November 2003. I am bias about his work, but the site has some images. I can tell you he is personable and i am sure he would be willing to talk to just about anyone. I signed the petition only because it reads as though a lot of tattooists will be hurt, put out of business. I want to get tattooed, i am a collector and think that if anyone wants to tattoo in Florida, it should be a state that is welcoming and above board. "Underground" tattooing happens when people get scared they can't meet requirements or something is illegal. Tattooing is legal here. Let tattooists practice their trade. Don't shut them out. New legislation is not an answer.

This last post by tat2 mark is one of the best posts, someone that is really looking out for the real tattooist in this state...
I would like to shake your hand mark...
keep up the good work and thank you for being on the ball to talk to someone that is really
giving true answers... not just guessing or jumping on the band wagon.

And the other posts that tell you how to deal with this by writing the senators, you guys are cool in my book. keep up the good work, that is what we need.

WAY TO GO MARK!!!

Mr. Hannong just wants no competition in the tattoo industry. I own a legitimate studio operating legally for two years, and my artist has twenty years experience. I will be forced to shut down because Mr. Hannong and four of his cronnies don't want to give anyone outside of social circle permission to operate in Florida. The "Guild" is a few shop owners self-appointed to the "board" to attempt monopolization within the State of Florida. When we are forced to close, we will lose our livelihood, our studio will be foreclosed upon by the bank (we own our real estate), along with our houses and our cars. We will be homeless as will our pets. Mr. Hannong, we will come live with you because you have taken away our income in this economy that is already poor to start with. Screw you.

The so called "guild's" website is very new. Whois info below.

Registrant:
Red Mccloughen
9210 S Hwy 17-92
Maitland, Florida 32751
321-624-2667
red@armadillored.com

Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Dates: Created 20-jan-2009 Updated 20-jan-2009 Expires 20-jan-2010
DNS Servers: NS23.DOMAINCONTROL.COM NS24.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

Here is another link to check out. It's apparent now that the "guild" is a group of bikers trying to monopolize the tattoo industry in florida:

http://www.damnbikers.com/tattooshops/fltats.htm

greetings all,
please read my comment in its entirety, for there seems to be alot of spot reading and mean and isultive comments being slung that dont need to be
i thought i would comment on all this thats going on. i arrived in florida just after there was an attempt to shut down tattooing in the early 90's. there was a group of individuals that had each chipped in apx 2500.00 to fight bad legislation. they fought to get the word usage from direct supervision changed to general supervision. thats what has kept us working.
i personally knew alot of these individuals that truely were the oldtimers in florida. i felt there cause , mission and intentions were honorable. i have maintained my dues as a member and stay active and my goal within the guild as it was in the a.p.t was to promote safe and clean tattooiung and greater education.
in this recent involvement i have maintained my possition in promoting bloodbourne pathogen training and a higher level of continued education within the tattoo studio for safer tattooing.
to adress the lifetime member coments. there is 1 lifetime member and he is a true pioneer within our industry. this lifetime membership was honorarily presented to lou for his kindness and being caring individual. there are elected officers and they are in term, not lifetime. all guild members pay anual dues.
the histoty of this last movement was brought forth by the blood bank in the state of florida. their hands are tied to not being able to harvest blood before a 6 month wait after one gets a new tattoo. they contacted the department of health in tallahassee, needing information. the d.o.h. sent them our way. the bloodbank was informed to look at other states and the way their laws have provisions to assist the blood banks in harvesting blood in a much shorter time. the guild was contacted because they were the only industry driven enity in florida. back when the piercing laws were drafted there was no organization in our state to contact, and looked what happened. the guild does not feel that they represent the tattooers in the state of florida. they have simply been a legislative watchdog which in the past have stopped poor legislation. i feel that i on the very least can promote good education, look at our piercing seminars, what a joke. so my goal is to get the a.p.t. to teach thier course in the state. the guild website had lost its webmaster and server, so being familliar with godaddy i got the website going again. i am no webmaster as you all can see. i personally know alot of you that have commented and most deffinatly respect all of your feelings and concerns.
if the majority of you dont want this legislation then it simply wont get through. theres always the plusses and the negatives in anything that we all do.
i truely feel there is not a guild member that thinks differently, nor do i think that we speak for the tattooers in the state. i became involved because i dont want what happend in piercing legislation become a reality in our tattoo shops.
thank you all for reading my comments and your time...

...(()) armadillo red

AMEN to Bill Harding. He has said it all. Now let's all keep calling and emailing every senator in the State of Florida. And once again here is the link for senator contact info:

http://www.flsenate.gov/Legislators/index.cfm?Tab=legislators&CFID=128607080&CFTOKEN=40198261

In defense of Stevie, it is NOT the "Julie Moon" camp. It is the Dennis Dwyer legacy Stevie ultimately comes from. Please know something about lineage before y'all post such drivel. The same with bashing Debbie. Who do you people think you are?

I've been informed this bill went to the floor before the meetings were supposed to have taken place. South Florida is rampant with corruption and certain wording in this bill goes against federal and state law concerning HIPA and the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I have to read it more in depth to get a little more clarity BUT when something is written into law that is so carelessly worded, we run the risk of jeopardizing certain freedoms AND fostering corruption. When the word of the law disagrees with another law, doesn't everybody bear the responsibility of asking for clarity?

Quit jumping down each other's effing throats. It's that type of rampant stupidity that leads to unnecessary regulations and furthers the thought that we are ignorant yokels. I do not have the luxury of being able to leave the state, as I have custody of two young daughters for the next 14 years.

thank you albert,

as he said, "Quit jumping down each other's effing throats. It's that type of rampant stupidity that leads to unnecessary regulations and furthers the thought that we are ignorant yokels".

When these discussions are read, expecialy by those that dig to find "weakness within" its the slanderous, uninformed, mentally disturbed individuals that are payed attention too. This creates dissention among the troops and gives those that want to detroy, fuel to burn. If the powers at hand were to read some of these comments, just what do think they would use them for. Im sure we all know
red

FPTAG had its opportunity to meet our needs, and failed, Isobel. Its time for another strategy, from the ashes rebuild. My personal opinion is to kill this Bill as quickly as possible, then from the ashes of this whole debaucle, rebuilt. New blood, new views, and a
charter that is all inclusive(EVERYONE INCLUDED). And another thing, Isobel, enough of the fear mongering. Lawsuits, doctors dropping people. That should have been a platform of the 'Guild' years ago, not now after the fact. FPTAG was in essence to help, protect, encourage, educate, have members in every county, have minutes of meetings, publish details for the public to read and be informed. At the drop of a hat, email 2500 people, tattooists and non-tattooists of anything pertinent to the art of tattooing.Did FPTAG get EXCLUSIVE? It is a clear yes. Did it mean to? Who cares! It is done, it failed. It seems that Red recognizes this, and i commend him on his humility. A humble guild member being open, there is true power. Trying to scare people into submission is futile, Isobel. Knowledge is the opposite of fear, and i have a good feeling that from this possible catastrophe will rise an organized Florida. It is obviously needed. FPTAG in my eyes should collapse, as it seems it will, and it is time for Florida to unite strong for future tattooing, legislation, empowerment with all invited and all with a voice. Bottom line, Isobel, you are obviously friends with the 'Guild' members. Note taken,we get it. Lets get back to the real issue at hand and stop the crony ism. This bill affects us all. No more cliques. This bill needs to die. It is dangerous. Time to do this right. First things first, kill this bill. Second, organize. Third, prosper and have tattooing safe and legit in Florida for our children's children to have, if they like ink of course! All of you are needed. All. In closing, Isobel, i am not your enemy. Just someone that shares one common ground with all of you, keep tattooing accessible, alive and healthy in Florida. For many tattooists down here, their lives/families are at stake, literally.

Armadillo Red

you stated:

"if the majority of you dont want this legislation then it simply wont get through. theres always the plusses and the negatives in anything that we all do.
i truely feel there is not a guild member that thinks differently, nor do i think that we speak for the tattooers in the state."

Hindsight is 20/20, isnt it. The time for your humility to your brethren(tattoo community) was well before it got this far.

I hold you to your comment above, but I have to admit, Red, the claims of 850 letters sent out? I only read of one, and she was on this blog. I have been receiving dozens of calls a day of tattooists angry and upset; they have children and families, wondering why they did not know of SB1130 and what can they do to stop it. They are afraid of what the Guild has done .

SB1130 was introduced to the to the Senate on the 2th of February. A guild meeting on the 16th of February for tattooists to comment on what they want in SB1130? SB1130 14 days AFTER the bill was introduced the guild is seeking comments?

You mention APT.Deana Lippens, a board member of The Alliance of Professional Tattooist Inc. contacted me completely horrified of what she was hearing at the guild meeting.

Red, i must quote you again...

"...the guild does not feel that they represent the tattooers in the state of Florida. they have simply been a legislative watchdog which in the past have stopped poor legislation. i feel that i on the very least can promote good education, look at our piercing seminars, what a joke. so my goal is to get the a.p.t. to teach thier course in the state..."

Red, your own board members of APT was where the whistle on this horrendous bill. APT board members is where the outrage of SB1130 got me started to get everyone involved. Also you mention the Guild as a simply a watchdog, Red, watchdogs don't help write this type of legislation, they inform. If your heart was in the right place, you did not effectively inform your state's tattooists.

Armadillo Red said:

"if the majority of you dont want this legislation then it simply wont get through. theres always the plusses and the negatives in anything that we all do.
i truely feel there is not a guild member that thinks differently, nor do i think that we speak for the tattooers in the state."

With what you said, I need your Guild to voice the same interest in KILLING THIS BILL as you do. There is a war on right now, Red, and it is with a bill that will cripple many tattooists in our state. Lets stop this Red. I will take you to your word in your above statement, but I want to cash out on what your intent is. Start getting this bill killed. I am the author of this Petition.

Red, you've heard the tattooists of Florida. Sign the Petition. Bill Hannong to sign the Petition. Connie Taylor to sign this Petition. 'Rocky' to sign this Petition. Anyone involved in the guild, sign THIS PETITION. For the public, the petition has a tab above that states "signatures". At anytime, anyone can see who signed this Petition and the comments.

SIGN THE PETITION. You have heard our voices. Do the right thing. HELP KILL THIS BILL. SAVE TATTOOISTS, THEIR FAMILIES, THEIR RIGHT TO EARN, THEIR LIVELIHOOD, THEIR ARTFORM.

Now is the time for all of us to become
a unified force that will protect our industry.

Time to unify.
Thanks
Stevie Moon

Kenny:

Sobel has three offices, try the other two. I was very upset when I called. And don't call suggest that I am a liar. I did call. In my haste I probably posted the wrong office number. Go to the link for the seantors and try her other two numbers. Sorry for the confusion.

This does not sound like a grandfather clause.

(d)1. For licensure on or before December 31, 2009, submit
115 written recommendations for licensure from five professional
116 tattooists who are practicing in this state, demonstrate 5 years
117 of previous practice of professional tattooing, and provide
118 proof of status as a professional tattooist by:
119 a. Submitting an occupational license as a tattooist from
120 any municipality or county;
121 b. Providing proof of employment in or ownership of
122 property that has an occupational license for the purpose of
123 tattooing; or
124 c. Submitting copies of prior federal income tax filings as
125 a professional tattooist.

There is no law in Florida which protects existing businesses from regulation. Once your business license is due for renewal you MUST conform with any new laws on the books before your license will be renewed.

This is from the LEE, CHARLOTTE AND COLLIER COUNTY TAX COLLECTORS OFFICES.

Stop trying to quiet the opposition by LYING.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/TattooBill/index.html

Sign the petition if you oppose this bill

AS PROFESSIONAL WE SHOULD TRY AND WORK TOGETHER AND NOT AGAINST ONE OTHER. THAT IS GETTING NO WERE. BUT FOR THE RECORD " THE FLORIDA PROFESSIONAL TATTOO ASTIST GUILD" HAS DONE ALOT FOR TATTOOING IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. IF IT WAS NOT FOR BILL HANNING, MILES TAYLOR, LOU SCIBERRAS, BUD PIERSON, AND A FEW OTHERS PROFESSIONAL TATTOO ARTIST STARTING THE GUILD IN THE EARLY 90'S. THERE WOULD BE NO TATTOOING IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA TODAY. WHAT IT SEEMS IS BEING OVER LOOKED IS THE FACT THAT THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT TATTOOING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. WHAT THE GUILD IS DOING IS TO TRY AND ASSIST IN THAT FOR THE GOOD OF ALL "PROFESSIONAL TATTOO ARTIST" IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. IF YOU ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE STATE OF FL. AS PER TATTOOING. YOU SHOULD BE WORKING WITH THE GUILD AND NOT AGAINST IT.MISS DEBBIE YOU WERE THERE IN THE EARLY 90'S AND YOU KNOW IT WAS YOUR STUDIOS THAT THE GUILD CAME TO RESCUE.

Michelle, the guild "SHOULD" have tried working together. But instead they tried to slide one in under the wire, and then to cover their asses, they call a meeting AFTER the bill was filed.

I know of NO ONE who received this mailing that went out to 850 shops.

Could we get a copy of the mailing list?

Other than this proposed bill, Florida currently has no new legislation targeting tattooist in Florida. So in fact there really was no need create new regulation.

And don't throw the safety issue at this one, as there was not one single reported case to any of the SW FL Health Depts regarding any licensed tattooist in all of 2008.

The only issues the Charlotte Co. Heath Dept. claims was a couple shops where cited for operating without current medical supervision in 2007.

You want to work together? KILL this bill and lets start from scratch drawing up legislation that won't put legitimate tattooers out of business, while still accomplishing safety regulations.

To Stevie Moon:

The reason you did not receive notice of the Guild's meeting that was held on February 16th, 2009 in Orlando was due to the fact that you are not listed with the Florida Yellow Pages, (which is where I pulled my listing for all of the shops in the State of Florida). Tonight I even tried to call you personnaly to talk to you, but could not find a phone number for your place of business. We are all business owners and do not really have the time to "visit" each individual shop owners and employees to let them know about what is going on with the legistlature involving the proposed tattoo bill. I am confused on how all of a sudden you got knowledge of this? For someone who doesn't have a published phone number for their business, you sure have a ptetty big voice.

Let me make a suggestion to you: Start from the letter A and work your way to the letter Z for all the states in this Country, the U.S.A.. Check out what is qualified for and individual to start-up the practice of tattooing in each individual state. I hear that Nevada, New York, California, and Hawaii, have pretty strict regulations. Maybe, after gathering all of that information, you can contact us at the Guild or(when you have a phone number that we can contact you back, we can discuss this matter with you. Obviously, other states have regulations that artists are following, why should Florida be any different? What are you hiding from?

Be part of the solution, not the problem.

Connie Taylor
Taylor's Tattooing
1929 S. Federal Hgwy.
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, 33316
954-525-7910

Listen people, I really don't understand why everyone is freaking out.

I don't think anyone is going to go out of business.

From what i can tell, they tried to make it as easy as possible to be grandfathered in. If you own a shop, all you have to do is prove that you operate a shop licensed by your city/county to tattoo, and if you're an artist, all you have to do is prove you're either licensed by your city/county, or prove that you are employed by a tattoo shop!

How hard is that? a few 1099s? you people can't come up with that?

What is so EVIL about what the "guild" is trying to do? THE BILL DOESN'T EVEN MENTION THE GUILD. it doesn't give them any power at all. IT AFFECTS THEM THE SAME AS EVERYBODY ELSE.

And some of you obviously don't understand legislative process. The bill was FILED a month ago, not passed into law. It still has to go through countless committees (who CAN add amendments to change the bill) and hours of revision BEFORE IT EVEN HITS THE FLOOR. For God's sake, IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A NAME YET: "A BILL TO BE ENTITLED" right there at the top!

And scare tactics? the only scare tactics I've read in these comments are the people against the bill running around telling everyone the sky is falling!

The Doctor system sucks. we all know that. it was never meant to be permanent. None of the doctors actually inspect these shops OR educate the artists. THERE IS NO REGULATION. AND what happens when one of these doctors gets sued? They get scared, drop their endorsement, THEN WERE ALL OUT OF BUSINESS. who the hell knows how it hasn't happened yet.

DON'T KILL THE BILL, We need something ASAP. TALK to the Guild, senator Sobel and your local representative. MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD. Hell, join the damn guild! the more people joined together and communicating, EVEN IF THEY DISAGREE TO THE BITTER END, the better it is for ALL of us.
This message board is great! the guild are full of old farts, they should have used the internet in the first place, but now that you know whats going on, TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF THIS BILL. WE CAN MAKE IT WORK, WE JUST HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER.

I have read the bill and filled out the petition. Just find it funny that a tattoo supplier is advertised on the page that informs you that you are added to the petition. Just a FYI As for the Guild I was one of the original members in the 90's If it looks like Sh#@, smells like Sh#@ it is Sh#@. I gave them my $2500.00 Went to Tallahassee Senate and told them what I thought about their little "monopoly" they wanted. As far as new "leaders" to the Guild I have no doubt that myself and numerous others would apply. As far as the closing of businessess in the 90's check your facts. It was not a statewide closing of tattoo studios. It could have led to that but it was not. I have been in business in Fl for 20 years Have changed regulations in Tampa to allow tattooing again I have held 12 Tattoo Conventions in Tampa. Not trying to float my own boat but have been around a long time. If anyone out there thinks this bill won't pass because they are too busy your wrong. If you disagree with the bill sign the petition and e-mail or call All of our elected officials. Don't be so worried about not liking this artist or that studio. It's counterproductive. Do the right thing and maybe for once this community of ours can keep level heads and Kill this bill!

Vicki Harris
Vicki@artisticarmor.com

To Connie:

One more thing. The way to get REAL mailing lists is through county licensing records. My, did you ever think of this? They are public record on line.

ONCE AGAIN THINGS ARE BEING MIS-UNDERSTOOD. THERE IS A VERY IMPORTANT FACT THAT ALOT OF YOU ARE OVER LOOKING OR JUST DON'T KNOW. THE STATE OF FLORIDA CONTACTED THE GUILD ABOUT THE "TATTOO BILL". THIS IS "NOT" SOMETHING THAT THE GUILD HAS PUT INTO PLACE. THE GUILD ONCE AGAIN IS WORKING WITH THE STATE, AT THE STATES REQUEST. THE GUILD IS WORKING WITH THE STATE TO TRY AND PROTECT THE TATTOO INDUSTERY IN FLORIDA.
YES, WE DON'T ALL AGREE ON THE WORDING OF THE BILL OR EVERYTHING IN IT, NOR DO I.

HOWEVER IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING FOR THE ART OF TATTOOING IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. JOIN THE GUILD AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD THAT WAY. FIGHTING BETWEEN EACH OTHER IS GOING TO GET NO ONE ANYWERE.

AS FOR THE EARLY 90'S WHEN STUDIOS WERE IN THE COURSE OF GETTING SHUT DOWN. YES, NOT ALL STUDIOS WERE EFFECTED. THAT IS BECAUSE THE GUILD WAS FORMED. TAKING THE ISSUE TO THE STATE BEFORE IT COULD EFFECT MORE TATTOO STUDIO.

To Michelle,

Exactly who was it (from the state) that contacted the FPTAG regarding this new legislation?

And why did the FPTAG take it upon themselves to draft the new regulations without FIRST consulting with the majority?

Exactly how many members are there in the guild?

What made them think that they could speak for the 850 that they supposedly mailed?

Why was the meeting held 12 days after the bill was filed?

And where is your illustrious guild president, shouldn't he be answering for the actions of the FPTAG?

So much for conventions in FL.

186(d) Practice tattooing only in a licensed tattoo
187 establishment that complies with the requirements of this part.

54(5) “Guest tattooist” means a person who has a professional
55 background in tattooing in another state, who is registered with
56 the department to learn tattooing under the direct supervision
57 of a licensed tattooist, and whose registration expires after 45
58 days and may not be renewed for 6 months.

282(5) The fee for registration as a guest tattooist may not
283 exceed $150 per registration.

STEVIE MOON, YOU NEED A LICENSE. YOU QUIT ON PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF TATTOOS AND DON'T EVEN GIVE THEM A REASON. HAD YOU HAD A LICENSE, IT SHOULD BE REVOKED. YOU UNETHICAL SLIMEBALL!

S.MOON, T. FRANCES, THE MANY ANONYMOUSES,
ALL THE JOHNS, DEBBIES, AND ABUSED SUSANS, OH YES LETS INCLUDE THE SILLY SALLYS...

I HAVE WATCHED, READ, LISTENED AND READ SOME MORE. THE MOST DISTURBING PIECE IN ALL OF THE COMMENTS THROUGHOUT ALL OF THESE BLOGS IS THIS ONE BY S. MOON COMMENTING TO ARMADILO RED
"Deana Lippens, a board member of The Alliance of Professional Tattooist Inc. contacted me completely horrified of what she was hearing at the guild meeting"

AND TWO PARAGRAPHS LATER

" your own board members of APT was where the whistle on this horrendous bill. APT board members is where the outrage of SB1130 got me started to get everyone involved."

I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF A.P.T. SINCE 1996,
I HAVE ATTENDED MOST OF THEIR MEMBER MEETINGS IN VIRGINIA, AND TAKEN SEVERAL PDDT COURSES BY THEM. I HAVE BEEN TO ONE OF THEIR CONVENTIONS IN KANSAS CITY. I HAVE WORKED WITH ONE OF THE PAST PRESIDENTS. I DO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT A.P.T. HAS NEVER PUT THEMSELVES INTO ANY POLITICAL ARENA. I KNOW FOR A FACT IF YOUR WERE TO HAVE CONTACTED ANY ONE OF THE OFFICERS AND OR BOARD MEMBERS THAT THEY WOULD FLAT OUT TELL YOU, A.P.T. IS AN EDUCATIONAL BASED NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION. THE ENTIRE A.P.T. FOUNDATION DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ANY TYPE OF INVOLVEMENT IN THIS OR ANY TYPE OF LOBBYING POSITION.

I AM NOT DOUBTING S. MOON IN ANY WAY. HES JUST LISTENED TO SOMEONE AND CAUGHT UP IN A VERY MALICIOUS LIE THAT HAS CAUSED A GREAT AMOUNT HARM AND DISTRUST IN THE TATTOO COMMUNITY.

YOU HAVE ALL BEEN DUPED BY AN INDIVIDUAL THAT CLAIMS TO BE A.P.T.'S OFFICIAL VOICE...TOU ALL HAVE BEEN ACTING UNDER THE PREMMISS THAT THE LEADERS OF A.P.T. ARE AGAINS THIS BILL.

I CHALLENGE ALL OF YOU TO CALL THE HOME OFFICE OF A.P.T. AND ASK THEM WHAT THE REAL STORY IS. YOU CAN LOOK UP ALL OF THE OFFICERS AND BOARD MEMBERS ON THE A.P.T. WEBSITE, GIVE THEM A CALL.

THE A.P.T. PHONE NUMBER IS 407 831 5549
THE WEBSITE IS WWW.SAFE-TATTOOS.COM

I HAVE PERSONALY READ THE ENTIRE BILL, AND YES THERE IS GOOD, AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE IN NEED OF CHANGE OR EVEN DELETION.

BUT MY MAIN CONCERN FROM THIS ENTIRE BLOG IS S. MOON MAKING THE STATEMENT: DEANA LIPPENS CONTACTED HIM REPRESENTING THE OFFICERS AND BOARD.

I QUOTE S. MOON AGAIN,
"board members of APT was where the whistle on this horrendous bill. APT board members is where the outrage of SB1130 got me started to get everyone involved."

MOST OF THE COMMENTS BOTH PRO AND CON HAVE VALID POINTS, AND BOTH SIDES HAVE GREAT CONCERNS.
AND TO THE REST THAT COMMENTED, YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM REMINDING US THAT YOU ARE A PRIME EXAMPLE OF WHY IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM, RETARDED OFFSPRING ARE EATEN.

THE TRUTH IS, LAWS AND REGULATIONS WILL SOME DAY BE HERE, AND AS ALL OF YOU, I JUST WISH THAT WE ALL COLLECTIVLY HAVE A VOICE.

JUST PLAIN HANK

There is a website created to contact all the State Senators with one easy email. Please people, the only way to beat this thing is to let your senators know we don't want this bill.

Visit: http://sb1130.linkgen.net/

Send this link to everyone you know who is affected by this outrageous bill.

One click and you can email every State Senator.

Took exactly 10 seconds.

Visit: http://sb1130.linkgen.net/

Just spent 30 minutes on the phone with Sam Kalmowicz, the attorney who wrote the bill sb1130.

Here is what he had to say about the bill.

First and most important: There is an amendment being drafted to grandfather in all currently licensed tattooist. You will still have to prove that you are a licensed business by submitting tax returns or a copy of your current business license. Amendments are being made to the recommendation letters.

Second: As the bill reads now it will be in affect July 1, 2009. That has been changed to Jan 1, 2010. And may be changed again to accommodate the bills timetable.

Third: It WAS the state who contacted the FPTAG to help with this bill. The reason for the change in legislation was if the State regulates tattooing then blood donors will not have to wait a year after receiving a tattoo to give blood.

Fourth: I ask about the timetable on this bill, and his response was that it could take a year or more to make it to the senate floor. And may not ever make it.

Fifth: New amendments are being drafted to allow conventions and make it easier for guest artist to visit.

Sixth: This bill WILL undergo a long series of changes and amendments before being passed.

Seventh: If you would like to talk with Sam regarding any other issues you feel are important, he will gladly take your calls at the Tallahassee office.

Eighth: The bill has only been introduce, it still has to go through five committees and three floor sessions, which at anytime could be rejected or amended.

As early as January 25, 2009 have I been aware of any legislation being proposed in Florida.

In an email letter from Sailor Bill Johnson to the Officers and Board of Directors came a preliminary proposal to offer our short course to Florida for impending regulations. At that time, no one on the Board of Directors, with the exception of Sailor Bill, knew anything about the Bill #S1130 or what it contained. A few days later, I was contacted by Armadillo Red (a former APT Officer and Director) and asked if the APT would be amenable to offer our PDTT course at a moment's notice, if need be. I read nothing further into his request, as it seemed to be a reasonable one: if legislation was impending and the State of Florida was looking to have Bloodborne Pathogens Training, then why wouldn't we want to offer our services?

When the email came from Sailor Bill, one member of the Board cautioned that the position of the APT might be misconstrued as that of legislative interference. I assure the Florida tattooists, members and non-members alike that the APT's position continues to be one of non-interference. It is not our purpose to introduce or promote legislation and when faced with impending regulations to help ensure that they are fair and enforceable.

The Alliance of Professional Tattooists, Inc. is comprised of tattooers from all over the world. Those who serve on the Board of Directors, do so on a volunteer basis because we are concerned about the welfare of tattooing and promote professionalism in every aspect of what we do. We professional tattooers wear many hats in many areas which concern tattooing. Because two of our Directors are Florida tattooists (and a former Director as well) the APT has been implicated in Florida's legislative conflict. Deana Lippens, Sailor Bill Johnson and Armadillo Red are not acting on behalf of the APT while they are dealing with the Florida legislature. They are then wearing the hat of a Florida tattooer. But, because of things being quoted in print in emails and blogs, libelous remarks, the APT and it's governing body is being falsely accused and implicated. I restate adamantly that our only position on this matter is to provide education and correct misinformation.

If the Florida tattooists are not happy about this legislation, they can contact the legislators involved and speak with them by telephone in a "professional" manner. Misinformation, hearsay, distrust  and ignorance are some of the things that get in the way of good organization, informed decisions, and the ability to act or respond appropriately and timely. If you feel your local professional organization doesn't represent you, you should have the ability to change that by becoming involved in it and becoming more aware of what takes place in the tattoo industry outside your daily scope. For over thirty years, I have witnessed the tattoo industry remain unorganized, uncommunicative and keeping their heads in the sand until it's too late.

Speaking now as a tattooer from New York and not as the President of the APT, it is my opinion that this is a matter for the tattooers of Florida. I also know that legislation in any state ultimately affects all tattooers as we saw how the New York City Tattoo Ban of 1960 did across the nation.

Wearing my other hat, that of President of the APT, I find it interesting that I personally did not receive a single communication from any of the vocal Florida tattooists with regard to the APT's alleged involvement in this issue. If it weren't for a good system of communication among the Home Office and the Board of Directors of the APT, I would also be stuck with my head in the sand. That would have been a shame since I am open to hear whatever questions you may have with regard to the APT. You may contact me at: psinatra@mac.com

Pat Sinatra
President
Alliance of Professional Tattooists, Inc.

APT's Prevention of Disease Transmission in Tattooing [PDTT Seminar] is available to all tattooers. Check out www.safe-tattooing.com for a seminar nearest you.
http://www.safe-tattoos.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0

"Silence is Complicity"

Steevie Moon...

Something just happened...Looks Like Deana

fed you a spoonfull of crap...APT has no say

in anything with this bill, other than

supporting the possible bloodborn seminars...

The president of APT, herself stated that

that there was no involvement in being

against this new bill...

Hank...you hit the nail on the head. KUDOS

Notify the State Senators that you are against this bill. Even if there is some truth to the post stating that there are amendments being made, you should still make your senators aware of what you don't like in the bill as it currently sits.

If you sit quietly and take it on blind faith that everything will be ok, you may put yourself out of business and benefit the "guild" who we know is looking out for all the tattooist in florida.

Go to http://sb1130.linkgen.net/ and send all the senators an email with one click.

http://sb1130.linkgen.net/

This smells funny! Bill Hannong and his cult have tried to bully others from opening up around him for years and this is exactly whats going on here. He is trying to stop other shops from opening so that he can achieve total tattoo supremacy and wipe out his competition. Are you that threatened Bill Hannong? There is nothing wrong with healthy competition...just put out better work. It's pretty obvious whats going on here, a big monopoly. If this gets passed it will put alot of good hard working people out of business. Let's see Bill Hannong for what he really is...a desperate man trying to strongarm everyone right out of the state of Florida...how unamerican!!! This gentleman and his organization should be ashamed of themselves. I'm not completely opposed to wanting to regulate tattooing a little better in this state, but this is not the way. SHAME ON YOU BILL HANNONG!!!

Passing this bill isn't going to eliminate scratchers from tattooing out of their homes. This will always exist, kind of like drugs being illegal but people are still doin em. This will always exist. I think the laws are fine the way they are, they just need to be enforced a little bit better. If this bill passes the way it is now, artists are going to rely on their competition to sign for them- we all know that this would be a major conflict of interest and probably wouldn't happen. This bill really needs to be looked at for what format it's in right now and right now this is looking like a hot mess for this industry in the state of Florida. Thanks for a steller performance guild...way to go!Thanks for making our decisions for us. Its unfortunate that the same old farts are still runnin the show. Perhaps it's time for the guild to retire and allow a younger fresher and more artistic group of tattooers to take this industry to a whole new level. No disrespect, but it's time to step down. I can't believe that senator Sobel is even entertaining the idea of passing this bill. Where is her last five years of income taxes? Where is Hannong's last five years of income taxes? And, who is this dictator Bill Hannong anyway?

Your Future as a Working Tattooist in Florida is at Stake

Tattooists: Do you want to continue tattooing in Florida?
We believe your answer is YES!
Clients: Do you want your tattooist to continue working in the state of Florida?
We believe your answer is YES!

ALL ARE INVITED TO JOIN US for our
Strategic Planning Meeting to Organize
and Preserve Tattooing in Florida


AGENDA

Official formation of the Florida Tattoo Coalition
Understanding the Legislative Process
Discussion of strategy to DEFEAT SB 1130
Legislative Consulting Services
Fundraising for Support ~ BRING YOUR CHECKBOOK


DATE: SUNDAY, MARCH 22, 2009
TIME: 2 PM ~ FINISH
Place: Homewood Suites Hilton
2987 Apalachee Parkway
Tallahassee, FL 32301

PLEASE FORWARD THIS INFORMATION to as many as you can. The Florida Tattoo community needs you right now more than ever.

I'm on the APT board for 15 years, in the FL Guild, A member of National Tattoo Assoc. since 1996, a FL business owner since 1984, the oldest tattoo studio in Orange County & 1st female licensed here, promoter of the Marked for Life Expo for 13 years. The one who saw the e mail about what was called "Possible changes in legislation in Florida. Good stuff happening and the FL Guild was working with them." (the Guild board)Red was working on the Blood borne training aspect of their new proposed regulations. I called Sailor Bill on this stating I was a member of the Guild and FL shop owner and was not advised about this and was upset about the Guild being involved without notifing anyone. He replied I should keep my opinion to myself until they had their proposal prepared to present to the APT Board for use on their seminar. (that's how APT was involved) with no other details. Later Sailor Bill said Bill Hannong and Conny Taylor would be contacting the Guild members to hold a meeting. Those notices were mailed on JAN 30th. When I recieved mine I started researching the facts and took copies of some of what I found out to that meeting on FEB 16th. I found out this bill s1130 was filed on the 2nd, and sent to committees on the 12th. After that meeting for those who didn't go or get notice of the meeting I started contacting tattooist and shop owners in FL, some I know personally some I didn't know with help from the internet. I was around long enouth ago to know the state never tryed to close tattooing down in FL, but was against it opening further, Ink Smith & Rogers had trouble in Jacksonville and Lou Sciberras ran into trouble in Miami. A group of tattooist started the FL Guild, Lou Sciberras WAS lOU'S Tattoos, Miles Taylor was Tats Taylor, Bud Piercing was Ancient Art in Orlando, Eric Ink Smith of Ink Smith & Rogers in Jacksonville and a few more concerned tattooist, but it has become an organization of just the Board, a few, I felt were not looking out for the whole community of FL tattooers. That group that sat on the Guild Board at this FEB meeting were Bill Hannong, Sailor Bill, Connie Taylor, Rockie, Armidillo Red and Jeff Bullard. There were only 57 people at that meeting including myself and other tattooist & shop owners, a few pierciers and 1 cosmetic school. I'm not sure how many were mailed out, only they have that list. But as a concerned Tattooist in this state I on my own took on the task of notifing others including Ms Deborah who was out of state at that time, & Stevie Moon along with several more. When Stevie contacted me wanting to know more I replyed "It would be horrible if this got passed and no one even knew it was on the agenda. (mis quoted as I was horrified) I also said I 1st heard about it in an APT board e mail, and I was keeping the board abreast to my findings. (also written a little different in the blogs) So to clear up a few things, everyone needs to act like adults and make smart desisions and remarks about this situation. Look up www.flsenate.gov and www.myfloridahopuse.com to reach out to your representatives, but 1st read the text of this bill word for word. Don't speak out unless you have your facts straight. Any concerns you have can be expressed about any specific bill or legislation issues to your Senators and House Representatives in your districts or the members of a committee hearing a bill. The public is allowed to give testimony at committee meetings as long as they fill out a card at the meeting. You can track the progress of this bill by using this link http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm? But 1st and most act like professionals, speak and dress proper to gain respect and don't act up because that will just make the rest of the concern seam ignorant of the importance of this issue. It is our livelyhood at stake, and to many of us Florida is our HOME. Deana Lippens

Over 700 signatures on the petition against this bill. What makes the FPTAG board members think that they were speaking on the behalf of the majority.

Maybe if the NTA and the APT got involved instead of just sitting back, we can avoid situations like this in other states.

After all, It was Bill and his Guild that said they would like to make this a blueprint for the rest of the nation to follow.

Hannong admits that his Guild ought to have devised a better way of alerting Florida tattooists. If Moon and others want to form a larger, more cohesive tattooists trade group, Hannong welcomes it. "I've been doing this for 17 years," he says of the Guild. "I'm tired; I don't want to do this anymore."

You all just cant get past the guild, apt or whom ever. In a professional matter, do what it takes to do what is necessary to accomplish your tasks, And address the bill.

All of the nay-sayers are making martyrs
out of these organizations. Move on, start your "new and improved" group and carry on.

Continuing to repeatedly bringing up these names, bashing and bashing becomes very old hat for the powers at hand.

A colleauge of mine, brought this blog to my attention. As an adviser for other groups in similar situations in the south east & Florida, I do understand the dilemma at hand.

A very small group that have blogged, (I have read every last one) speak with the inside knowledge, both pro & con. These are the ones that that have progressive intentions to see this through.

Then there is the at least eighty percentile that have no base. They come across to the readers as "simple" people just blogging to be funny. Its quite obvious from the rambling on about individuals and their organizations, name bashing accomplishes no common goal.

Look real close at the two different sides in all three blogs and you'll se little of the proponets getting caught up in name calling and attempting to create mayhem.

Then observe the ones against. Creating such a slanderuos and negative view of the organizatins and individuals involved, proves that they have no gaols. Just redundant rants and raves, that bottom line supports the comments from the ones on the pro side of the SB1130.

As stated several times, goals, proceedures and, actions. INTELLEGENLTY...

Don't waste your time posting here as it won't do a bit of good.

Just make the legislators aware that you are against this bill. This will have a bigger impact.

Go to http://sb1130.linkgen.net/ and send all the senators an email with one click.

http://sb1130.linkgen.net/

What about H 1343? This is exactly as SB 1130. Are they (the Guild) trying to underhandedly get this other bill of H 1343 passed while we're all focussed on SB 1130?

I have already canceled my reservations and trip to NC for this years convention and will encourage all other Florida artist and enthusiast to do the same. I will not support or promote any organization who is affiliated with Bill Hannong or the FPTAG.

Let your Senators know that you do not support SB1130.

http://sb1130.linkgen.net/

Diane, its stupid questions like this that will get this bill passed.

Call the health dept and/or cops.

Dearest James & Terry Allen:

We here at the center would like to congradulate the both of you.

We continuously scour blogs, readers imput colums, and comment sections from all over the globe. This month we are pleased to announce that you have come in FIRST PLACE.

Your first place win entitles you to: getting your comments posted world wide.
You will also be receiving many other awards once other affiliations see that hands down, YOU HAVE TO BE THE DUMBIST MOTHER FUCKER IN THE TATTOO INDUSTRY, LET ALONE THE WORLD...CONGRADULATIONS...

to anonymous

thank yu for da spellin lessin...

hense the name, who do yu think werks here ?... scholars?...

we wil try to include yu in next months news letter in special peoples colum...

thank yu for bein special...and its O TAY
to be mentally challenged...puppies like us more.....and we have our own olympics!!!

Dear James

Does mental retardation run your family? My family tree is full of nuts! Expecially my mom, wow!. We might be related.

The difference is bikers extorted money from honest hard working tattooers and tried to strongarm people into closing their businesses for territorial reasons...So lets not fool ourselves here...bikers werent and arent fuckin saints either.As for tattooing, it sure is an industry doesnt national sell tattoo equiptment...machines,inks,needles,etc?That would be considered products therefore it has become an industry plain and simple. On the subject of supplies and suppliers, alot of "old timers" speak with distaste towards some of these companies for selling to the public as well as professionals. Ask some of these guys how they or their mentors got into the "industry". Didn't they get a "starter kit" or machines from someone? Not everyone came into this industry via the traditional apprenticeship. Read about a good portion of the real "old-timers". You will see how they received equipment and information from different tattooers. Granted, the industry was much smaller then as apposed to present day. But the truth be told, there were no secrets, just an evolution of an industry. You could say this about any other trade or industry. Things evolve and people share this knowledge, to better the whole. So, I agree with some of what you are saying, but some of your statements are a bit inaccurate as well. I also understand the need to unite for the bigger cause. So, all tattooers have a voice and can be represented properly.Just to touch once more on supposed secrets of the trade i'm pretty sure the first electric tattooers probably didnt serve formal apprenticeships,and alot of what they did was just trial and error.Thats how we learned how to make certain detailed designs larger on the body rather than smaller to allow for better aging of the tattoo.This as well as a whole host of other mistakes helped us to learn more about tattooing and helped with its evolution...not secrets...just trial and error.

I am one of 2 other owners of a small studio here in Ft.Myers. None of the owners tattoo ( we have a fantastic artist who does that) we pierce.

We have been in this business at this location now for less than 8 months - I have read and re-read this bill .....and for the life of me I truely don't understand it. Am I soon out of business or what? Should I try and find a buyer for a dying business?

Any comments will be greatly appreciated.

Q